George, I understand your viewpoint on the sponson discussion. HOWEVER, the discussion taking place is alot more informative than what was previously happening on the old WaveLength list (god that feels weird saying that). I have always wondered about sponsons but never felt like getting involved with the discussion. Anyone know how to tell how many people have subscribed to this list? Brian Heifner Portland OR. USA. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
> > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > > Personally, I moved to PaddleWise to get away from the %&*$ #$_at_% > sponson debate. So how come it's being dragged along? Do we need a new > listserver called "SponsonDump" were this pointless debate can go to die? > > STOP ALREADY!!! You came to the wrong place, then. It was pretty clear that *NO* paddling related topic would be censored here. There's already a list that does that. PaddleWise was set up because I *wanted* to talk sponsons rationally. That's happening here right now. Very civilized. Now, you wouldn't be deliberately trying to undo that would you? Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
I support what Jackie says below although I do see why you are seeing red. Sponsons were not effectively discussed on WaveLength because of Tim's wild interjections and attacks on people. It prevented John Winters from fully laying out the clear treatise that he just did for PaddleWise. It was an excellent summary with lots of differentiation of real and unreal aspects of sponsons. And I think we should all thank him for still being able to speak fairly objectively about sponsons. After all the wild personal accusations he had to undergo, I am surprise that he isn't going out with a beebee gun to shot every sponson in sight and lots of party balloons as well. I think points added by Bob Myers, a key question asked by Chuck Holst, and my own inputs have shed tremendous light on this subject, which is an important one. Don't forget that Tim has been trying to get trial lawyers and legislators interested in papering the walls with cases and laws mandating sale of sponsons. This kind of discussion that is going on here in PaddleWise is an antidote to all of that nonsense. I do however understand why you are throwing up your hands. What went on in WaveLength was exasperating. However, what is going on here is not. The only similarity is that the subject is sponsons. Please don't see red on this. If John Winters doesn't, and he has more reasons than most of us for being justified in being pissed off, then we shouldn't either and deal calmly and effectively with the subject. best, ralph diaz > > Personally, I moved to PaddleWise to get away from the %&*$ #$_at_% > > sponson debate. So how come it's being dragged along? Do we need a new > > listserver called "SponsonDump" were this pointless debate can go to die? > > > > STOP ALREADY!!! > > You came to the wrong place, then. It was pretty clear that *NO* paddling > related topic would be censored here. There's already a list that does > that. > > PaddleWise was set up because I *wanted* to talk sponsons rationally. > That's happening here right now. Very civilized. Now, you wouldn't be > deliberately trying to undo that would you? > > Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
>> >> Personally, I moved to PaddleWise to get away from the %&*$ #$_at_% >>sponson debate. So how come it's being dragged along? Do we need a new >>listserver called "SponsonDump" were this pointless debate can go to die? >> >> STOP ALREADY!!! >> >> George Bergeron, Director '99 OSWEGO HERITAGE COUNCIL >> P.O. Box 1041, Lake Oswego, Oregon 97034 >> http://www.europa.com/~heritage/welcome.html Email: heritage_at_europa.com the thing here is, there is nobody getting in your face about it. there is rational discussion going on. not heated. this subject is banned on WL. we want intelegent discussion on ANY subject, without yelling and name calling. i hope you didn't come here to get away from "debate" but came here to share ideas, some of yours have made my website, [http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr/cpr-tips.html] and i value your input. on PW, we have discussed it rationally, and relatively emotion free. i am handicapped, and will NEVER be able to roll a boat again. i want to know my self-rescue options... but i don't want someone who disagrees with me to start calling me a baby-killer. #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: "A man is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits." -Richard M. Nixon *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
> > Anyone know how to tell how many people have subscribed to this list? > > Brian Heifner > Portland OR. > USA. 86 and still growing (not counting digest subscibers) Cheers! Jackie _ _ _ _ _ \\ / \0/ \ / \0/ \ \\ " " `\ ,sSSs,\, )\w/( ,sSS..)/{) <<..> sSSS_v)/ \ )<*> sSS[(\_]___\ <(_/_o_o_ 'sS[_`-+---+) \----+-------+-------'---`-----\-------------') ~~~~~~~ ~~jf ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~\~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ o \ o \\ o o \\ o o ` (\ o o >jf:-) o (/ o *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
Brian Heifner wrote: > ...SNIP... > > Anyone know how to tell how many people have subscribed to this list? Send the command "WHO" (without the quotes) in the body of a message to the following address: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net You will get the names of the subscribers, and a count of the total. Dan Hagen Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
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