Hi Folks, 'Very glad to be a part of this new list. Kudos to the list-owners for conceiving a spam-free semi-moderated list without commercial contributions. Thank you!! I've been an avid sea kayaker for several years and am more or less continually working to improve my skills, technique & gear. My latest kayak gear project has been to modify my cockpit for better comfort & performance. I usually paddle a Current Designs Solstice GT, but the procedure should work (with enough fiddling around) for virtually any boat. I enjoyed the article in Feb '98 Sea Kayaker magazine which included instructions for building a custom seat, hip & knee braces out of gray minicell foam, self-adhesive foam and speaker grill fabric. The author happens to live only a few miles away, so I paid him a visit to get some more detailed info. Yesterday I "sculpted" the seat bottom & installed the back band. Today I carved the hip braces and will start on the knee braces as soon as I have more time. Total cost for the materials including a $45 back band was about $112, but you could probably do better with a little shopping around. 'Haven't tried it out on the water yet, but I already have a very good feeling about this. The boat is *very* comfortable - not surprising since the "butt dimples" :-) were carved to fit yours truly, and overall I sense a much better contact between my body & the boat at 3 key areas - butt, hips, and knees/thighs. All told, I've spent about 8 hours on it so far and anticipate about that much again before it's completed. The old seat in my boat was an absolute bear to remove, due primarily to some incredibly effective adhesive they used to glue the bottom in place at 3 locations. I had hoped to remove the seat in one piece, in case I wanted to put it back in but I actually had to cut it into pieces to get the thing out. Ken, the author and local paddle guru, says "you won't believe what it'll do for your paddling!" I can't confirm that yet (give me a couple weeks) but, so far so good! Anybody here have experience with this? Stories to tell? Craig Olson Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
At 12:55 PM 1/28/98 -0800, Craig Olson wrote > >I've been an avid sea kayaker for several years and am more or less continually >working to improve my skills, technique & gear. My latest kayak gear project has >been to modify my cockpit for better comfort & performance. I had talked to Nigel Foster about a seat and his opinion was to get a bag of plaster of paris a garbage bag,mix it and pour in the bag and sit on it. It will take a impression of your perfect seat.Every dimple etc. Then when dry clean and smooth. Wax and apply fiberglass cloth and resin to form a mold. then smooth any thing and wax and lay up a seat. Needless to say it is a perfect fit and I never had to use padding again, just the perfect seat. I have built four kayaks and used the seat in each with the same results. It only fits me but I am selfish and don't care. It is the BEST seat available period. My opinion of course and I am associated with my seat. Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
"Be kind to thine ass, for it bears thee" -- Holy Bible, I forget where. Roger *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
At 02:23 PM 1/28/98 -0800, Roger.Korn_at_radisys.com wrote: > >"Be kind to thine ass, for it bears thee" -- Holy Bible, I forget where. > >Roger > > I think that the four legged kind Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 dldecker_at_mediaone.net wrote: >> >>At 12:55 PM 1/28/98 -0800, Craig Olson wrote >>> I've been an avid sea >>> kayaker for several years and am more or less continually working to >>> improve my skills, technique & gear. My latest kayak gear project has >>> been to modify my cockpit for better comfort & performance. >> >>I had talked to Nigel Foster about a seat and his opinion was to get a bag >>of plaster of paris a garbage bag,mix it and pour in the bag and sit on >>it. It will take a impression of your perfect seat.Every dimple etc. >>Then when dry clean and smooth. Wax and apply fiberglass cloth and resin to >>form a mold. then smooth any thing and wax and lay up a seat. Needless to >>say it is a perfect fit and I never had to use padding again, just the >>perfect seat. I have built four kayaks and used the seat in each with the >>same results. It only fits me but I am selfish and don't care. It is the >>BEST seat available period. My opinion of course and I am associated with >>my seat. >> >>Dana >> that's harsh dana, selfish ... as my kid would say: sit on it ;-) how appropriate ;-) i've always wanted to tell someone that!! thanks, i feel better paddle on!! mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: You can't start worrying about what's going to happen. You get spastic enough worrying about what's happening now. -- Lauren Bacall *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
>>>BEST seat available period. My opinion of course and I am associated with >>>my seat. >>> >>>Dana >>> > >that's harsh dana, selfish ... as my kid would say: sit on it ;-) >how appropriate ;-) i've always wanted to tell someone that!! >thanks, > >i feel better > >paddle on!! > >mark > I felt your pain but with the custom seat I don't feel it any more dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
Dana Decker wrote: > I had talked to Nigel Foster about a seat and his opinion was to get a bag > of plaster of paris a garbage bag,mix it and pour in the bag and sit on > it. It will take a impression of your perfect seat.Every dimple etc. > Then when dry clean and smooth. Wax and apply fiberglass cloth and resin to > form a mold. then smooth any thing and wax and lay up a seat. Needless to > say it is a perfect fit and I never had to use padding again, just the > perfect seat. I have built four kayaks and used the seat in each with the > same results. It only fits me but I am selfish and don't care. It is the > BEST seat available period. My opinion of course and I am associated with > my seat. > > Dana Brutally cool, Dana. There's something utterly satisfying about carving "butt dimples" when the butt in question is mine! You know, like, the hell with *your* butt! Thanks for your plaster of Paris idea, too. I might try that in my spare boat, but not until I get this "foam art" thing happening. Craig Olson Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:23:55 +0300 >To: "Craig Olson" <craigo_at_az.com> >From: Jim Champoux <jim_at_sigall.com> >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Cockpit Modifications >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > >>Dana Decker wrote: >>> I had talked to Nigel Foster about a seat and his opinion was to get a bag >>> of plaster of paris a garbage bag,mix it and pour in the bag and sit on >etc.. > >Hey would 2 part foam in a garbage bag work? seems it would require less >sit time. hmmm. The garbage bag probably wouldnt come off...maybe sprayed >with silicone or something? > > Jim Champoux *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
>>>Dana Decker wrote: >>>> I had talked to Nigel Foster about a seat and his opinion was to get a bag >>>> of plaster of paris a garbage bag,mix it and pour in the bag and sit on >>etc.. >> >>Hey would 2 part foam in a garbage bag work? seems it would require less >>sit time. hmmm. The garbage bag probably wouldnt come off...maybe sprayed >>with silicone or something? >> >> > >Jim Champoux > Don't know but give it a try and tell us good or bad. dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
At 04:06 PM 1/28/98 , dldecker_at_mediaone.net wrote: >>>>Dana Decker wrote: >>>>> I had talked to Nigel Foster about a seat and his opinion was to get a >bag >>>>> of plaster of paris a garbage bag,mix it and pour in the bag and sit on >>>etc.. >>> >>>Hey would 2 part foam in a garbage bag work? seems it would require less >>>sit time. hmmm. The garbage bag probably wouldnt come off...maybe sprayed >>>with silicone or something? >>> >>> >> >>Jim Champoux >> > >Don't know but give it a try and tell us good or bad. Be careful! Chemical reactions like this usually give off some heat. Foam is about the hardest thing to get off that I know about, so be sure to drape and tarp and mask to the best of your ability. Though it would be pretty funny to watch someone running around frantically, with a hot garbage bag full of foam stuck to their butt! Can I watch you try? Maybe some old long underware with plastic worn underneath? Won't it be all wrinkly from the garbage bag? ________________________________________________________________ Doug Barnard Virtual Acreage Agoura, California (near L.A.) Visualization in 2D/3D/4D http://www.iswest.net/~dbarnard 818-991-9328 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
doug barnard wrote... >Be careful! Chemical reactions like this usually give off some heat. Foam >is about the hardest thing to get off that I know about, so be sure to >drape and tarp and mask to the best of your ability. It is *very* sticky. BTW have you ever seen those pre-packaged packing things which are essentially a sealed plastic bag with A and B vials inside. You crack 'em and throw the bag into a shipping box, place the to-be-shipped item on top, then crack another one and toss it on top, then tape the box closed? apparently they have the quantity/expansion/box size thing worked out. > >Though it would be pretty funny to watch someone running around >frantically, with a hot garbage bag full of foam stuck to their butt! I think your right, I think I would stay away from that crack filling stuff. > >Can I watch you try? I dont think so.. but I think John Winters mentioned something about a bathing suit and Vaseleine...John, were they Speedos?..and...hey wait a minute, this didnt have anything to do with the "Charlene" incident did it? >Maybe some old long underware with plastic worn underneath? Won't it be all >wrinkly from the garbage bag? yeah..I think the plaster idea is better.... Jim Champoux *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
I havent caught this whole thread so excuuuuuuse me if I'm repeating something. Rubber Rope in Watersmeet MI makes some dandy foam products which Ive seen people use for removeable/adjustible cockpit fitting. Glue some velcro strips on the cockpit and shaped foam, and they go in and out as needed, and no flaming butts involved The foam comes in 3-4 inch thick planks. I havent custom fitted my seat, but i use a slab of it in front of my bulkhead in lieau of footpegs. Wayne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
>Though it would be pretty funny to watch someone running around >frantically, with a hot garbage bag full of foam stuck to their butt! Can I >watch you try? >Doug Barnard Virtual Acreage >Agoura, California (near L.A.) Visualization in 2D/3D/4D >http://www.iswest.net/~dbarnard 818-991-9328 > > Jackie, Please some art work depicting that Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 dldecker_at_mediaone.net wrote: >> >>>>>BEST seat available period. My opinion of course and I am associated with >>>>>my seat. >>>>> >>>>>Dana >>>>> >>> >>>that's harsh dana, selfish ... as my kid would say: sit on it ;-) >>>how appropriate ;-) i've always wanted to tell someone that!! >>>thanks, >>> >>>i feel better >>> >>>paddle on!! >>> >>>mark >>> >> >> >> I felt your pain but with the custom seat I don't feel it any more >> >>dana >> ouch, no. . . no ouch, yes i see, or i don't, or i should log off before it gets deep. #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: You can't start worrying about what's going to happen. You get spastic enough worrying about what's happening now. -- Lauren Bacall *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
Hello Craig, Thanks to your post I ran out and purchased the latest issue of Sea Kayaker for just the reason of the custom seat info. Many thanks for the tip. Regards, Philip Wylie Edmonton,Alberta *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
The plaster method is the one that many boat builders use and probably why their seats fit some people really well and others so poorly. One of the problems with the foam method suggested is that the foam gets bloody hot and you can get some rather severe burns to delicate parts if you sit down on it while it is curing. Also it doesn't really foam uniformly. I recommend you stay away from the foam. When I did the plaster method, I wore a tight fitting swim suit and smeared it with Vaseline. It worked nicely but you have to be somewhat careful not to put all your weight on it while it is curing because your butt will flatten out a bit in you will get too much contact around your ischeal tuberosities (Spelling?). The way the experts do it is to build a seat with thousands of pressure sensors. They measure the pressure all over the seat and then adjust the seat to reduce local pressures that might cause discomfort. Two years ago I worked on a racing canoe for paraplegics. These guys really know about seats. If you are interested in the world's most comfortable seat, hie yourself down to one of those stores that specializes in devices for the handicapped. They may have one of the air filled gismos that is used by wheel chair athletes (looks like a bunch of black peanuts on end stuck to a pad) Talk about heaven! They are expensive. There are foam alternatives made by some small companies that are close to being as good but less expensive. They mix and match different foam densities to get the proper support for all your parts. (Your butt is a complicated thing when you hear the experts talk about it). Cheers John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 dldecker_at_mediaone.net wrote: >> >>>Though it would be pretty funny to watch someone running around >>>frantically, with a hot garbage bag full of foam stuck to their butt! Can I >>>watch you try? >>>Doug Barnard Virtual Acreage >> >>Jackie, Please some art work depicting that >> >>Dana >> she's probably resting after giving birth to a big list list this (forgive me jackie ;-) i admire a person who stands on her own two feet... #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: "A man is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits." -Richard M. Nixon *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
Jim wrote; (SNIP) > I dont think so.. but I think John Winters mentioned something about a > bathing suit and Vaseleine...John, were they Speedos?..and...hey wait a > minute, this didnt have anything to do with the "Charlene" incident did it? Don't recall what kind of swimming trunks. Must have been cheap though. Keep in mind that plaster gets hot too and you need something down there besides Vaseline. I used the same technique in making and canoe yoke mold. Used burlap to reinforce the plaster. I met Charlene before my plaster episode. Not sure how she would have reacted to that. She never liked my sailing friends so I doubt if her sense of humor could have coped with watching me cure. Cheers John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
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