Re: [Paddlewise] Leader Requirements

> From: "patrick.maun_at_duffy.com  " <patrick.maun_at_duffy.com>

> 
> John Winters wrote:
> >The two clubs I belong to have a slightly different approach to trips.
> >There are no leaders. There is a trip organizer. The organizer decides
> >where he or she wants to go and then lets out the word about time and
> >location as well as some idea of the skill level required and the
> maximum
> >number of people for the trip.
> 
> John,
> 
> I agree completely with your definition. We have been having arguments of
> leader vs. organizer in our local club recently, and I think that this is
> an important distinction to make. I think a leader is important on a trip
> with, say, the YMCA or Mountain Travel Sobek. With kayaking clubs, which
> are generally made up of people who have made a commitment to kayaking, a
> leader becomes superfluous and can start start creating hierarchies within
> a club. Yes, an organizer can use judgment such as "The water is 35
> degrees and you want to wear shorts? You're not goin' buster.", but an
> organizer isn't going to run my life while I'm on a trip. When I am on a trip with
> a group, I'm my own leader and take responsibility for my actions while
> looking to the organizer for logistical information, tips, area info or
> whatever.  There is gray area between the two, but I think that defining how
> a trip is organized is important for all those involved to understand. 
> 
> When I organize winter camping trips, I'll tell someone if they're not
> prepared to go out in the conditions we might face. But I am not going to
> demand that people follow me when I go on hike A, or tell someone they can't
> go on this trip because they haven't built 40 snowcaves according to
> British specifications. If someone gets in trouble while on a trip (whatever
> kind of trip that might be), or course I'll do my damnedest to get them out
> safely, but that is commonsense, not leadership.
> 
> I'd like to hear what others think about this, and how your local club
> operates.
> 
> -Patrick
> 

I understand what you mean about not wanting to be forced to abide
by the "rules" of someone who might not understand your skills as
well as you do.  I can also understand the need of some clubs to
establish some trip rules and ask for waivers if someone is representing 
the club in an outing.  I wouldn't really care whether waivers were used 
or not, as long as the club is incorporated.  This is an important 
distinction in many areas.  When a club incorporates, this protects its 
members from another club representative acting negligently which could
injure (or worse) someone on the outing, where many of us can 
relate stories of leaders/coordinator insisting the members who were
not equipped skill-wise to "go in over their heads," so to speak.

I can understand from a liability point the need for clubs to establish
consistent rules and, in their own defense, show they are doing whatever 
they can to make sure the trip is a safe one and to have basic safety 
rules for coordinators and members.  Those rules should be presented 
before the trip.  Rules such as no one will leave the group, everyone 
will wear a pfd (or no one will wear a pfd depending on your club :-),
everyone will carry glow sticks at night, everyone will have a whistle,
etc..  These are only examples but represent clear-cut rules for the 
club and the goals or safety standards the club is attempting to 
establish for its organization and the paddler is aware of *before* 
the trip.  It provides advance notice for those who would object to 
such rules thereby having the opportunity (choice beforehand) to not 
participate in that club's trips.  I have a problem with being told I 
will do whatever the leader/coordinator instructs (ambiguous) or I won't 
be invited back.  As we have read here, there have been instances where
some leaders/coordinators have lead the members into conditions where 
they were not prepared.  I don't think the club can have it both ways...  
insist the paddler is responsible for themselves yet demand that they 
follow all instructions of the trip leader/coordinator.  I mentioned in 
a previous message that I worry this wording may send a message to the 
paddler that the leader is ultimately responsible for their own safety 
rather than themselves.   

I think a possible valuable use of a waiver is that it can be the 
springboard for educating paddlers about safety and ultimately being 
responsible for their own safety, the best lesson a paddler can learn, 
imho.  Telling the paddler they must do everything the leader/coordinator 
instructs (too ambiguous and not specifically laid out ahead of time) 
I'm afraid might send the wrong message.  And I personally, would not 
want to be put in such a position as a trip coordinator.

However, I might feel quite differently about such a waiver if I were a
professional outfitter/tour guide. 

I prefer John Winters' waiver :-).  If anyone missed it, they can find 
it at  http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/articles/
under clubs and waivers.  

Cheers,

Jackie
http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/

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