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From: Geo. Bergeron <heritage_at_europa.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Nobody Home. . .
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:41:40 -0800 (PST)
        VHF radios. . . Mine ran $250, not $100, and I like to think there's
someone on the other end monitoring broadcasts when I'm paddling in coastal
areas. There's been paddle expeditions where I've been listening to radio
traffic and find the band pretty busy. Astoria is one such area. 

        On the other hand, I've been sitting at the dock of the Mult. County
Sheriff River Patrol in downtown Portland (Willamette) and squawked just to
see if the channel was open and got nothing. There's also been times when
I've squawked the radio right next to the Portland International Airport
with airplanes and river traffic in abundant evidence. . . nothing. One day
the Spirit of Portland was coming up the Willamette in downtown Portland
(commercial tour boat) and I asked the captain if he needed space to turn
about. That day I got a response.

        So, I'm skeptical that the radio I carry is going to bail me out
when I need it. It's nice to have a weather report, and the option of
calling for help rather than being without a radio altogether. But there's
been too many days when no one is listening --despite the fact that bigger
boats need to monitor the radio when underway. 

        

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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_seasurf.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Nobody Home. . .
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:40:24 -0800
Geo. Bergeron wrote:
> 
> VHF radios.[snip] There's been paddle expeditions where I've been listening
> to radio traffic and find the band pretty busy. Astoria is one such area.
> 
>         On the other hand, [snip] There's also been times when
> I've squawked the radio right next to the Portland International Airport
> with airplanes and river traffic in abundant evidence. . . nothing.

Huh?  Air traffic shold not be monitoring the marine freqs.

> One day
> the Spirit of Portland was coming up the Willamette in downtown Portland
> (commercial tour boat) and I asked the captain if he needed space to turn
> about. That day I got a response.
> 
>         So, I'm skeptical that the radio I carry is going to bail me out
> when I need it. It's nice to have a weather report, and the option of
> calling for help rather than being without a radio altogether. But there's
> been too many days when no one is listening --despite the fact that bigger
> boats need to monitor the radio when underway.

George raises a sticky point.  Three thoughts:

1. I think areas where people USE the VHF to convey their intentions
(shipping channels, etc.) and/or there is an "ethic" of "help the other
guy" are places where people will listen, and respond.  Maritime
communities are good places for that.  It also helps to hail a boat by
name (use binocs to pick the name off the bow).  The average pleasure
boater in metropolitan areas does not have his/her radio on -- not the
ethic in metro areas. I would not expect to get a response on 16 in
Portland (or any other metro area) *unless I Maydayed.*  Then I think
I'd get the USCG up right away.  I know down here the USCG typically
does not respond to random squawks on 16 -- they're trying to keep 16
clean for emergency use and hailing.  (Ch 9 is also used for hailing
down here, I think.  In some parts of coastal BC, Ch 6 is informally
designated as the local hailing channel.  YMMV.)  "Radio checks" are not
supposed to occur on 16.

2. In the past year, I've taken to monitoring 16 and the local hailing
channel when I'm out touring.  (Monitoring 16 is not required for my
vessel.)  I don't like the noise, but if I expect someone to hear me
when I need help, I'd better listen for someone who needs help from me,
no?  It's a two-way street, and I can't expect to just use the radio to
summon help when I need it.  I have an ethical responsibility to be part
of the "safety net" for others.  In some "remote" areas of the coast of
Vancouver Island, the most numerous radio-carriers, might be sea
kayakers.  Doesn't do anybody any good if all the radios are off except
when one yakker turns his/hers on to call for help, does it?

3. For a synopsis of channel usage in the Pacific Northwest (including
BC), send an SASE to the North Pacific Marine Radio Council, 11410 NE
122nd Way, Suite 312, Kirkland, WA  98034 (FAX 206-820-0126), listed as
"Dedicated to Improvement of the Maritime Mobile Service." Their trifold
pamphlet details changes in hailing channels and the addition of channel
67 in the Puget Sound / Straits of Juan de Fuca area for
commercial/noncommercial traffic.  There is a really handy summary of
Marine Operator channels BY LOCATION for WA, OR, AK, and BC, as well as
a summary of the procedures for accessing marine ops in BC.  Finally,
the last part lists WX 1 through 4 BY LOCATION.  I laminated mine in
plastic and stuck it in my chart case.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Geo. Bergeron <heritage_at_europa.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Nobody Home. . .
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:14:06 -0800 (PST)
At 10:40 PM 2/28/98 -0800, Dave Kruger wrote:

>>         On the other hand, [snip] There's also been times when
>> I've squawked the radio right next to the Portland International Airport
>> with airplanes and river traffic in abundant evidence. . . nothing.
>
>Huh?  Air traffic shold not be monitoring the marine freqs.

        I get the impression that channel 16 is used by CB, aviation,
sheriffs, truckers. . . I know that it's used by truckers and CB --along
with channel 9. And I got the message somewhere that you make contact on 16
and then move off to another channel. Any boat I've ever talked to I called
up on 16 and then moved to another channel. I get radio traffic on Mt. Hood
with my VHF. . . not river traffic or marine. But I've got 90 some channels
local and international that I can monitor, not necessarily broadcast on. 
>
>George raises a sticky point.  Three thoughts:
>
>1. I think areas where people USE the VHF to convey their intentions
>(shipping channels, etc.) and/or there is an "ethic" of "help the other
>guy" are places where people will listen, and respond.  Maritime
>communities are good places for that.  It also helps to hail a boat by
>name (use binocs to pick the name off the bow).  The average pleasure
>boater in metropolitan areas does not have his/her radio on -- not the
>ethic in metro areas. I would not expect to get a response on 16 in
>Portland (or any other metro area) *unless I Maydayed.*  Then I think
>I'd get the USCG up right away.  I know down here the USCG typically
>does not respond to random squawks on 16 -- they're trying to keep 16
>clean for emergency use and hailing.  (Ch 9 is also used for hailing
>down here, I think.  In some parts of coastal BC, Ch 6 is informally
>designated as the local hailing channel.  YMMV.)  "Radio checks" are not
>supposed to occur on 16.

        A scan of the traffic generally turns up a local "chat channel" that
is fairly busy. Although lots of times I find that I can pick up the
transmission, but they don't hear me. I would expect the Multnomah Co.
Sheriff's River Patrol to respond to the inquiry, "Is there a monitor on
16?" just to let someone (like a solo kayaker on the Willamette or Columbia)
know that there's someone who can be contacted on the radio. 

        I'd like to know that there's someone out there on the other end of
the emergency channel who might hear me. . . BEFORE I need to ask for help.
I know there are relay transmitters all along the Willamette and Columbia so
that getting out of range is unlikely.

        In the summer when boats are bow to stern on the river, I KNOW there
are radios being monitored. In the winter when the river is pretty deserted
I'm not confident that my call for help is going to be heard by anyone.

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From: Hank Hays <lhays_at_canby.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Nobody Home. . .
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 08:19:07 -0800
At 08:41 PM 2/28/98 -0800, Geo. Bergeron wrote:

>        VHF radios. . . 
>
>        On the other hand, I've been sitting at the dock of the Mult. County
>Sheriff River Patrol in downtown Portland (Willamette) and squawked just to
>see if the channel was open and got nothing. 
>
>        So, I'm skeptical that the radio I carry is going to bail me out
>when I need it. It's nice to have a weather report, and the option of
>calling for help rather than being without a radio altogether. But there's
>been too many days when no one is listening --despite the fact that bigger
>boats need to monitor the radio when underway. 

There was a newsletter article I saw maybe 3 or 4 years ago in, I think,
the MASK Club (New York City) publication (Ralph D might remember it).
They were discussing radios such as above vs. cell phones.  I remember it
as article contributors concluded that radios were broadband, but maybe no
one is listening, and cell phones were narrow band, but dial a number
(Coastguard, police, etc.) and there's almost always someone at the other
end.  If you aren't in cellrange carry the radio, but carry the cell phone
anyway unless you *know* you will never be in range.  

Hank Hays


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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Nobody Home. . .
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 11:43:51 -0800
Hank Hays wrote:
> 

> 
> There was a newsletter article I saw maybe 3 or 4 years ago in, I think,
> the MASK Club (New York City) publication (Ralph D might remember it).
> They were discussing radios such as above vs. cell phones.  I remember it
> as article contributors concluded that radios were broadband, but maybe no
> one is listening, and cell phones were narrow band, but dial a number
> (Coastguard, police, etc.) and there's almost always someone at the other
> end.  If you aren't in cellrange carry the radio, but carry the cell phone
> anyway unless you *know* you will never be in range.
> 
> Hank Hays

MASK hates my guts, so I never see any of what they write.  But I did
make exactly that observation, I think in a letter to Sea Kayaker about
four or five years ago.  It was based on the experience of someone I
know who saw a boating accident (not involving canoes or kayaks), tried
raising anyone on his marine radio with no success.  Then he took out
his cell phone (this was years ago, BTW, so not as much chance of
reaching anyone as now), dialed 911 and had rescue on the scene in a
jiffy.

ralph diaz

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Ron Johnson <rfred_at_atl.mindspring.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Nobody Home. . .
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:48:46 -0400
[snip]
>There was a newsletter article I saw maybe 3 or 4 years ago in, I think,
>the MASK Club (New York City) publication (Ralph D might remember it).
>They were discussing radios such as above vs. cell phones.  I remember it
>as article contributors concluded that radios were broadband, but maybe no
>one is listening, and cell phones were narrow band, but dial a number
>(Coastguard, police, etc.) and there's almost always someone at the other
>end.  If you aren't in cellrange carry the radio, but carry the cell phone
>anyway unless you *know* you will never be in range.
>
>Hank Hays
>
Yesterday, after my wife and I took our kayaks out of the Chattahoochee and
I drove away to scout for another takeout downstream, she saw a canoe
overturn while trying to turn into the takeout.  After helping one paddler
out of the river, she ran downstream and found the second paddler holding
onto a tree separated from the bank by a 15' channel of fast water (there
has been a very long dam release from Buford Dam and the river has been
high and turbulent).  He said he didn't think he could get to shore (cold,
banged up, and drank some river water) and needed her to call 911, so she
ran back to our boats and got out the cell phone that was behind her seat.
The fire department pulled him out with a rope.

On another local river, according to the Atlanta Journal and Constitution,
a whitewater kayaker drowned when he capsized while showing his girlfriend
how to paddle upstream.  No helmet, no PFD.

Ron

Ron Johnson = rfred_at_mindspring.com

		"How every fool can play upon the word!"
		   W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice


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From: <dldecker_at_mediaone.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Cell vs VHF
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 19:58:45 -0500
CELLULAR TELEPHONES ON BOATS

     The Coast Guard does not advocate cellular phones as 
a substitute for the regular maritime radio distress and safety
systems recognized by the Federal Communications Commission 
and the International Radio Regulations -- particularly
VHF maritime radio. However, cellular phones can have a 
place on board as an added measure of safety.

     CELLULAR PHONE LIMITATIONS IN AN EMERGENCY 

o Cellular phones generally cannot provide ship to ship safety 
communications or communications with rescue vessels. If
you make a distress call on a cellular phone, only the one 
party you call will be able to hear you.

o Most cellular phones are designed for a land-based service. 
Their coverage offshore is limited, and may change
 without notice.

 o Locating a cellular caller is hard to do. If you don't know
 precisely where you are, the Coast Guard will have difficulty
     finding your location on the water.

     Note: In some areas, however, cellular providers have 
established a special code (*CG) which, if you are in range, will
     connect you directly to a Coast Guard Operations Center. 
This service may only work with the carrier to which you
     have subscribed. 

     CELLULAR/VHF MARINE RADIO COMPARISON

     Cellular phones do provide the convenience of simple, 
easy-to-use, inexpensive, private and generally reliable telephone
     service to home, office, automobile or other locations. 
Placing a shore-to-ship call to someone with a cellular telephone
     is especially convenient. However, you cannot use your cellular
 phone outside the United States, and you may need a
     special agreement with your carrier to use it outside
 that carrier's local service area.

     VHF marine radios were designed with safety in mind.
 If you are in distress, calls can be received not only by the Coast
     Guard but by ships which may be in position to give immediate 
assistance. A VHF marine radio also helps ensure that
     storm warnings and other urgent marine information broadcasts
 are received. The Coast Guard announces these
     broadcasts on VHF channel 16. Timely receipt of such 
information may save your life. Additionally, your VHF marine
     radio can be used anywhere in the United States or around the world.

     On VHF radios, however, conversations are not private and 
individual boats cannot be assigned a personal phone
     number. If you are expecting a call, channel 16 or the 
marine operator's working channel must be continually monitored.

     SHOULD YOU RELY ON A CELLULAR PHONE EXCLUSIVELY?

     Actually there is no comparison between cellular phones 
and VHF marine radio. They normally provide different
     services. The cellular phone is best used for what it is, 
an on board telephone -- a link with shore based telephones. A
     VHF marine radio is intended for communication with other 
ships or marine installations -- and a powerful ally in time of
     emergency.

     If you have a portable or hand held cellular telephone,
 by all means take it aboard. If you are boating very far off shore,
     a cellular phone is no substitute for a VHF radio. But, 
if you are within cellular range, it may provide an additional means
     of communication.

                                             --------------

                                       Fact Sheet # 24 January 1994

     Coast Guard Consumer Fact Sheets are not copyrighted. 
They may be reproduced in whole or in part without
 permission. For further information contact the 
Coast Guard Consumer Affairs and Analysis Branch -- 1-800-
    
>
>There was a newsletter article I saw maybe 3 or 4 years ago in, I think,
>the MASK Club (New York City) publication (Ralph D might remember it).
>They were discussing radios such as above vs. cell phones.  I remember it
>as article contributors concluded that radios were broadband, but maybe no
>one is listening, and cell phones were narrow band, but dial a number
>(Coastguard, police, etc.) and there's almost always someone at the other
>end.  If you aren't in cellrange carry the radio, but carry the cell phone
>anyway unless you *know* you will never be in range.  
>
>Hank Hays
>


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From: SG Scorpio <SGScorpio_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Nobody Home. . .
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:59:06 EST
In a message dated 98-03-01 11:22:50 EST, lhays_at_canby.com writes:

<< If you aren't in cellrange carry the radio, but carry the cell phone
 anyway unless you *know* you will never be in range.   >>

 Couldn't agree more Hank!  I carry both but use the cell phone 98% of the
time.  I also have a sailboat and the VHF channel monitoring is sketchy at
best.  The commercial channels and bridge tending channels are the only ones I
have consistently been able to get responses on.  16 sometimes, but not
always.
Steve
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From: SG Scorpio <SGScorpio_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Nobody Home. . .
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:02:51 EST
You have to be careful dialing 911.  If you are out of your area code you will
get the 911 office in your code.  If I'm in the San Juan's and dial 911 I get
connected to Portland!  No good!  I carry all the emergency numbers in my cell
phone drybox and don't depend on 911.
steve
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