PaddleWise by thread

From: Geo. Bergeron <heritage_at_europa.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Rudders
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 18:31:36 -0800 (PST)
        Now that the subject's been raised, who uses rudders and who leans
the boat? 

        My Current Designs Solstice GTS has a rudder, but I've never used
it. I bought the boat slightly used from Pacific Wave where it was the
"extra" trip boat for a while for the "in crew" at the shop. . . I don't
think the rudder's ever been used. 

        The Solstice GTS tracks in all seas, and doesn't broach or windcock
much. 

        Anyone want to keep score on this one? 

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/
***************************************************************************
From: R. Walker <rww_at_mailbox.neosoft.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:13:52 +0000
> Now that the subject's been raised, who uses rudders and who leans
> the boat? 

Whats wrong with doing both, I think its easier to keep on a
course over distance using the rudder, but for manuevering
around leaning seems a bit easier and more convenient.

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/
***************************************************************************
From: Michael Neverdosky <MichaelN_at_cycat.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:43:04 -0500
rexrob_at_premier1.net wrote:
> 
> George wrote:
> 
>  Now that the subject's been raised, who uses rudders and who leans
> the boat?

How about both?
I find that I prefer boats without rudders until I add a sail rig.

> just say no to rudders.

Maybe.  :-))
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/
***************************************************************************
From: Bob Denton <bob_at_dnax.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:20:45 -5
I just bought a boat with a retractable skeg which seems to have the 
best of both worlds...a rudderless manuverable boat with drop down 
tracking when necessary and without the mushy pedals and Rube 
Goldberg rudder trash hanging off the back of the boat..

cya
Bob Denton
Vice President 
Undersea Breathing Systems
bob_at_dnax.com
http://www.dnax.com
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/
***************************************************************************
From: James Lofton <n5yyx_at_etsc.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders/Curious survey..
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:40:57 -0800
Geo. Bergeron wrote:
> 
>         Now that the subject's been raised, who uses rudders and who leans
> the boat?
>   <SNIP>


I have an old folbot, super. I had it over 12 years and put a good many 
miles on it before I "got smart" and put a rudder on it. I've lost count 
of the times I lost control of it in strong winds! I would just regain 
and keep going.? After installing one a few years back I don't see 
how I lived with out it! I still don't use it much, except to hold a line 
when I need it."I may not be as strong a paddler with it but I darn sure 
smile a lot more! :>)" I also fly a kite and use a down wind spinnaker, 
so use the rudder then.
I don't know if I've gotten smarter but I've sure gotten older and I 
would never go back to not having a rudder, atleast on that boat.
Almost all my paddling in the super is solo so the rudder helps replace 
that "front" paddler. My wife goes on a couple of overnighters with me 
each year but she is a non-paddler, so the rudder is still welcome.

I also have a folbot, aleut. I've had it over four years and have yet to 
find a condition that makes me even "think" rudder. It goes where you 
point it and stays that way! Good, fun little kayak!!

      >...Curious survey part....<

>Edward F. Luty wrote....

>My question is this: How often is the average paddler on this
>list able to get onto the water? Once a week, a couple of times a month,
>every day(for those fortunate to live on or near the water)?
>       I was just wondering......
>                                Thanks
>


The bad news is I live about 80 miles from the nearest paddleable water 
and can only get off to go once, maybe twice a month.
The good news is I can go year around, and ALWAYS make it a two or three 
night affair! A couple of times a year I take off for a week or more. 
Every now and then I sneak it a two weeker. I once spent over two months 
on a trip.."Heaven!!!!"

My boats are always paddled loaded and I have only paddled each one of 
them maybe once with out gear.

If I lived closer(to water) I would go more often. As it is, go less, 
stay longer.<G>

James

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/
***************************************************************************
From: Kirk Olsen <kolsen_at_imagelan.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:24:42 -0500 (EST)
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Geo. Bergeron wrote:

>         Now that the subject's been raised, who uses rudders and who leans
> the boat? 

I used to be deadset against rudders.  I still think a sea kayaker should
first learn to control the boat without a rudder, so that if and when
the rudder breaks they can get out of whatever trouble they may be in.

If a skilled paddler decides they want a rudder I'm all for it.  The example
that changed my mind was the guy that paddled around Australia.  He
said compensating for a crosswind for the entire day wasn't worth it,
when he could simply add a rudder and paddle with a balanced stroke.

I now have a boat with a rudder, it's 19'6" (just under 6m)  with a 
17.25" (43.8cm) beam.  It's brutal to turn.  Leaning doesn't help all
that much.  The rocker created by leaning the boat isn't that significant, 
it's also tippy and leaning it can get exciting. 

The major problem I have with most of the rudder equiped boats, in the US,
is that the rudder controls double as foot pedals.  I've neaver heard a
good justification for not selling a boat where the foot pegs are fixed
and the rudder is controlled by the forefoot.  Maybe enough customers haven't
complained.

kirk
  
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/
***************************************************************************
From: Kevin Whilden <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 08:23:08 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Ferguson" <a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz>
To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders
<snip>
> An overpriced step in the right direction - could do better.
>
> Alex

Okay, I'll bite. Alex, how about a description in gory detail of your best
rudder system? I'll admit to being quite curious how it's done properly,
even though there is no chance that I will be converted... ;-) Photos would
be nice too if they are available.

I also agree that the sealline system has some serious shortcomings,
especially the fact that it retracts vertically and not flush with the rear
deck. This is a recipe for disaster in even the smallest surf, because the
rudder will be mangled on the bottom if the kayak flips over.  It's also a
problem for cartopping and for carrying the kayak.  For such an expensive
system, I would expect much better in at least this aspect.

Cheers,
Kevin

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Alex Ferguson <a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 14:53:44 +1200
[Kevin]
>Okay, I'll bite. Alex, how about a description in gory detail of your best
>rudder system? I'll admit to being quite curious how it's done properly,
>even though there is no chance that I will be converted... ;-) Photos would
>be nice too if they are available.

Converted to using a rudder? No need to be, just that if a person IS going 
to use one, what about a decent design - no sliding pedals, support for the 
whole foot, easy position adjustment, no mounting holes through the hull - 
not rocket science to design something like that.

I have supplied drawings to those who have requested them. There are three 
(5?) NZ kayak manufacturers that I can think of straight off that use 
pedals mounted on a platform with a central track/bar. Usually they have a 
series of holes and a sprungloaded pin to position the platform. I use 
webbing and a camlock - micro-adjustment steps. The pedals hinge on the 
platform at the bottom of the pedal or off a fixed piece such that the 
heels brace against a fixed point and the toes move or in my case, the 
hinge is level with the ankle and the whole feet sized pedals move.

All use auto-adjusting rudder lines and have done for quite a number of years.

Rudders all come up and on to the deck, Challenge Plastics and mine pull up 
like a dagger board on a yacht and the blade holder cants over so the 
rudder blade is in the same place as all the others. Difference is the 
blade is locked down to the hull by the pull-up line which goes to the top 
of the blade.

The one exception is the Southern Viking rudder which is mounted on the 
side of the kayak, independantly developed in Australia and here. Both 
designers put it on the port side because the water goes down the plughole 
the other way in the southern hemisphere(???!!!).

Alex
.
.


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:32:48 PDT