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From: Geo. Bergeron <heritage_at_europa.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:57:35 -0800 (PST)
At 10:33 AM 3/2/98 -5, you wrote:
>I use the Standard VHF..5 watts, waterproof and $199.
>
>One expression in amateur radio is a dime on the antenna is worth a 
>dollar on the radio. The rubber duckies used on VHF radios are 
>usually terrible, and evena simple wire antenna hung froma tree would 
>make a dramatic difference.  I'd suggest a Jpole or dipole (made from 
>TV twin lead ) cut for around 160Mhz.
>
>

        There's a lot of discussion flying about in this group about rubber
ducks, ham sticks, J-pole/Di-pole, ground plane, Mhz. . . and radios. 

        Rubber ducks is what you try when you don't want to use a condom.
Ham sticks are like beef sticks. . . only more fat and cholesterol. I'm
assuming that a J-pole is a Polish bird species, and a Di-pole would be a
Polish fan of the late princess. Ground plane has gotta be like an airplane
only safer--either that or chopped liver with no frills. And hertz is what
happens when you drop the kayak on your bare feet, so Mega-hertz would be
like getting struck by a car. . . 

        My French is pretty fair, and my Latin will get me through most
episodes of "Peoples Court." But this radio stuff has got me all
Verschimmeinlich. How about some of you radio types broadcasting on a
band-width I can receive??? 

        Over and out, Geo. 

        


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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_seasurf.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 08:14:52 -0800
Geo. Bergeron wrote:

(In response to the following:)

> >One expression in amateur radio is a dime on the antenna is worth a
> >dollar on the radio. The rubber duckies used on VHF radios are
> >usually terrible, and evena simple wire antenna hung from a tree would
> >make a dramatic difference.  I'd suggest a Jpole or dipole (made from
> >TV twin lead ) cut for around 160Mhz.

>         There's a lot of discussion flying about in this group about rubber
> ducks, ham sticks, J-pole/Di-pole, ground plane, Mhz. . . and radios. [snip]
> But this radio stuff has got me all Verschimmeinlich. How about some of you
> radio types broadcasting on a band-width I can receive???

I'm with George on this one.  All this sexy stuff the HAM's on this list
describe needs translation into the practical realm of a salt
water-inundated, mobile VHF unit environment.  Here is what would help
me:

1. Reports from people who have been able to substantiate the range of
the universally available 5W hand-held rubber ducky-antenna-equipped VHF
marine radio.  (This is the type of unit 90% of VHF-equipped sea
kayakers own and use.  Antenna modifications (even a telescoping whip)
are a liability on the water, owing to the strong likelihood salt water
will enter the radio and ruin it, unless the unit is completely enclosed
in a *durable* plastic shroud.)  So who has tested these things *in the
field* under the conditions sea kayakers would use a VHF?

A. In the yak, on the water, from yak-to-yak?

B. In the yak, from a yak to a power boat using the standard 8-foot
mast?

C. On the beach, standing up, to either a yak on the water or a power
boat with the 8-foot mast?

D. On the beach, standing up, to another similarly located and equipped
VHF'er?

2. Reports from people who have broadcast FROM THE BEACH using
*simple-to-buy* (or simple-to-make), durable, *radio-safe* antenna
variations which can extend the radio's range *significantly* -- the
kind of use a "pinned down" group might make to let the USCG or the
person holding their float plan know they are safe (or, have an injured
party member needing medical evacuation).

As my contribution:

1. A:  best I can document is about 3 miles, with some landform
interference in my line-of-sight to the other yak. (I've had other times
when I could not raise someone who was about 4 miles away.)

1. B. No experience.

1. C. I've gotten my 3W unit to make a usable, slightly broken
transmission about 8 miles across mostly open water to a *land-based*
8-ft mast.  

1. D. I've gotten my 3W unit to make a usable transmission 4.5 miles
across mostly open water (with only one 150 ft-tall intervening
ridgelet).  The other guy had a 5W unit, and we agreed later the
receptions were basically equivalent.  Another time, we tested 5W and 3W
units, standing up, across a bay, and found good, usable transmissions
at 3 and 5 miles, but NOTHING at 7 miles.  That surprised us. (We tried
a whip on the 3W unit.  It did not change this -- we could not document
any improvement in transmission with the whip.)

2. I got no detectable improvement *in transmissions* using a whip
adjusted to a length apropos for the marine VHF band.  I was warned, by
the highly-regarded marine radio shop from which I bought my ICOM, that
an incorrect antena configuration could *damage the radio.*  I own a
commercially-made dipole on a 6-foot piece of coax which can be tuned to
the marine VHF band, and hung vertically from a tree (or paddle, etc.). 
I think this should improve performance, but have not been able to test
it yet.  A ham sent me some terrific plans for a "narrow beam" antenna
I'd like to try out, but that will have to wait.

Others?
-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Michael J Edelman <mje_at_mich.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 12:37:45 -0600
Dave Kruger wrote:

> ...Antenna modifications (even a telescoping whip)
> are a liability on the water, owing to the strong likelihood salt water
> will enter the radio and ruin it, unless the unit is completely enclosed
> in a *durable* plastic shroud.)

The antennas supplied with most radios attach via a BNC connector which is not a
watertight fitting. If the radio is waterproof with the supplied duckie, it'll be
waterproof with any other antenna.

> 2. I got no detectable improvement *in transmissions* using a whip
> adjusted to a length apropos for the marine VHF band.

How did you measure this? You can't go on percieved strength of the received
signal since FM tends to be all-or-nothing over a wide range of signal strength.
You need to either measure the strength of the received signal or do a range test
over unobstructed ground or water.

> I was warned, by
> the highly-regarded marine radio shop from which I bought my ICOM, that
> an incorrect antena configuration could *damage the radio.*  I own a
> commercially-made dipole on a 6-foot piece of coax which can be tuned to
> the marine VHF band, and hung vertically from a tree (or paddle, etc.).
> I think this should improve performance, but have not been able to test
> it yet.  A ham sent me some terrific plans for a "narrow beam" antenna
> I'd like to try out, but that will have to wait.

Narrow beam aka high gain antennas aren't a good choice for seaborne use unless
you're in an actively stabilized boat ;-) The antenna must be properly oriented to
take advantage of the narrow radiation pattern.

A simple whip can be made from a BNC connector, a length of music wire and a
plastic bead to protect one's self from the pointy end. It *will* have a great
advantage over a rubber duck; duckies are very lossy and can have less than ten
percent of the efficiency of a simple whip.  A half-wave marine antenna mounted on
the deck will have even better efficiency.

The advantage of a duck is that it's compact and not in the way if your radio is
clipped to your PFD. But if you're in the water holding your radio in your hand
just above the water you're not going to have much useful range anyways. Then
again, from reading Ralph's writings on navigating in traffic the single best use
of a hand-held marine radio might for short range transmissions. "Calling
BEHEAMOTH! There is a small, flimsy kayak DEAD AHEAD of you!!!!!"

The marine shop that gave you the warning about damaging the radio is not really
correct. Typical modern radios have foldback protection that limits output into an
improper termination. You can't make a hand-held radio otherwise, since a few
inches movement of the radio near the body results in gross differences in the
actual impeadance of the antenna system, which is to say you're always
transmittting into a mistuned antenna system. Another reason why getting the
antenna away from the paddler helps.

I don't have a VHF marine radio so all my testing has been with amateur VHF, but
the physics are the same.

--
Michael Edelman     http://www.mich.com/~mje
Telescope guide:    http://www.mich.com/~mje/scope.html
Folding Kayaks:     http://www.mich.com/~mje/kayak.html
Airguns:            http://www.mich.com/~mje/airguns.html


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From: Bob Denton <bob_at_dnax.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:02:05 -5
Not true. A number of marine radios DONT use BNC connectors which is 
why they are waterproof.

cya


> Date:          Wed, 04 Mar 1998 12:37:45 -0600
> From:          Michael J Edelman <mje_at_mich.com>
> Organization:  Muppet Labs
> To:            paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subject:       Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .

> The antennas supplied with most radios attach via a BNC connector which is not a
> watertight fitting. If the radio is waterproof with the supplied duckie, it'll be
> waterproof with any other antenna.
> 
Bob Denton
Vice President 
Undersea Breathing Systems
bob_at_dnax.com
http://www.dnax.com
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From: TomTotem... <gadfly_at_isomedia.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .FWIW
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 11:57:22 -0500
At 01:02 PM 3/4/98 +00-05, Bob Denton wrote:
>Not true. A number of marine radios DONT use BNC connectors which is 
>why they are waterproof.
>
>cya

			Hi y'all,

				Both my Yeasu [FT-50r] and my Standard use a screw mount that is
called... "?????" [can't remember]  It looks as though the mount relies
upon a physical seal between the outside [rubber] of the antenna and the
radio proper, for a water-tite connection.  

		I did purchase a BNC to "????" adaptor when I bought the Yeasu, and in
the instances that Dave K. discusses [emergency commmunication on land in
the wilderness].  An adaptor like this, and the makings for a wire antenna
of some sort might be a good addition to that list of emergency equipment.  

		Is amateur radio an appropriate topic for the list?   Dunno.  I do know
that when paddling on some "cricks" in MI, alone, near the prison, etc...
I really liked having a reliable 2 meter HT available.  Heck,  I like
having one available anywhere.  I *HAD* a cell phone, but I ran into
problems with coverage, with frequency of use, and of course COST.  

		It took me [seriously] 14 days, 1/2 hour per day of browsing through a
$10 book I bought at Radio Shack, to learn enough to pass the "No-Code
Technician Class" license exam.  It has proven to be worth the small
investment in time.

		I'm rambling again, must be time for coffee...  

				Take care,
		
>
>
>> Date:          Wed, 04 Mar 1998 12:37:45 -0600
>> From:          Michael J Edelman <mje_at_mich.com>
>> Organization:  Muppet Labs
>> To:            paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
>> Subject:       Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
>
>> The antennas supplied with most radios attach via a BNC connector which
is not a
>> watertight fitting. If the radio is waterproof with the supplied duckie,
it'll be
>> waterproof with any other antenna.
>> 
>Bob Denton
>Vice President 
>Undersea Breathing Systems
>bob_at_dnax.com
>http://www.dnax.com
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> 

	Tom Weese

Kirkland, Wa.

Three left turns often make a right...

<http://www.isomedia.com/homes/gadfly/>

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From: Bob Denton <bob_at_dnax.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .FWIW
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:45:11 -5
Actually, you raise a good point. It's very easy these days to get a 
basic ham ticket and very useful. There are no code requirements.

The information aquired during the process is very useful for anyone 
using radio communications.

One of the advantages we hams have is the national repeater network. 
Generally, we dont use VHF for point to point communications (good 
for up to a few miles on a hand held), but we communicate with 
repeaters which then forward our audio in real time to other hams.

The repeater receives the signal on one frequency and rebroadcasts it 
on another using high power, usually 100s of watts)  and tall 
antennas. The repeaters can have a range of up to 100s of miles 
(mountain tops) and often have 911 service and phone patches.

There are thousands of repeaters throughout the US..world wide 
infact. The repeater I use here in florida is maintained by the 
Motorola Radio Club, but others may be supported by private clubs or 
even individuals.

The Gorden West "No Code Tech" book available at Radio Shark is 
excellent.. And morse, even though no longer an official requirement 
by many marine services, is still known and it's easy to signal with 
almost anything if you know code.

cya
W2PN 
> 
> 		It took me [seriously] 14 days, 1/2 hour per day of browsing through a
> $10 book I bought at Radio Shack, to learn enough to pass the "No-Code
> Technician Class" license exam.  It has proven to be worth the small
> investment in time.
> 
> 		I'm rambling again, must be time for coffee...  
> 
> 				Take care,
> 		
> >
Bob Denton
Vice President 
Undersea Breathing Systems
bob_at_dnax.com
http://www.dnax.com
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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_seasurf.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 02:55:16 -0800
Michael J Edelman wrote:
 
[many snips]

> Narrow beam aka high gain antennas aren't a good choice for seaborne use unless
> you're in an actively stabilized boat ;-) The antenna must be properly oriented to
> take advantage of the narrow radiation pattern.
> 
> A simple whip can be made from a BNC connector, a length of music wire and a
> plastic bead to protect one's self from the pointy end. It *will* have a great
> advantage over a rubber duck; duckies are very lossy and can have less than ten
> percent of the efficiency of a simple whip.  A half-wave marine antenna mounted on
> the deck will have even better efficiency.

Many thanks to Michael, Bob Denton, Phil Wylie's buddy, and the others
who responded to my plea for documented ranges for transmitter
capabilities using various "enhancements" of the basic handheld marine
VHF radio. Their ideas are fodder for more testing, I believe.

I think we need field testing of the range achievable with some of the
various antenna configurations suggested.  If I can get my ham buddy
interested in tuning some antenna mods to optimize their fit to my VHF,
I think I'll go back to my "test bay" and repeat some of the range
testing I did two/three years ago.  Here's my short list.  Please email
me (not the list) with suggestions for other configurations and/or ways
to do the testing.

1. Off-the-shelf OEM rubber ducky -- what came with the radio.

2. Simple dipole suspended vertically (from a tree), coaxed to the VHF.

3. Quarter-wave whip.  (Or, should this be a half-wave whip?)

4. Simple (4 element?) directional antenna (a YAGI?), coaxed to the VHF.

Thanks.
-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Bob Denton <bob_at_dnax.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:50:51 -5
One issue with VHF is that you want the signal to travel 
horizontally, not vertically. The more  energy you can direct at the 
horizon and the less at the sky, the more effective your radio 
becomes.

The higher gain antennas change the signal pattern from a dome to 
more of a pancake pattern. The right antenna can make 5 watts on a 
duckie sound like 1000 watts to a distant station. The same benefits 
apply on the receive end as well.

A telescoping  whip isn't necessairly going to provide a noticible 
improvement over a rubber duckie. You'd have to set the length using 
an SWR meter and then it will only be marginally better then a 1/4 
wave RD and probably no where as good as a 5/8 duckie.

BTW, I have talked to Europe using  0.5 watts... but the antenna was 
66 feet wide and 88 feet long...

cya

Bob Denton
Vice President 
Undersea Breathing Systems
bob_at_dnax.com
http://www.dnax.com
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From: James Lofton <n5yyx_at_etsc.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 18:07:02 -0800
Dave Kruger wrote:
> 
> Geo. Bergeron wrote:
> 
> (In response to the following:)
> 
> > >One expression in amateur radio is a dime on the antenna is worth a
> > >dollar on the radio. The rubber duckies used on VHF radios are
> > >usually terrible, and evena simple wire antenna hung from a tree would
> > >make a dramatic difference.  I'd suggest a Jpole or dipole (made from
> > >TV twin lead ) cut for around 160Mhz.
> 
> >         There's a lot of discussion flying about in this group about rubber
> > ducks, ham sticks, J-pole/Di-pole, ground plane, Mhz. . . and radios. [snip]
> > But this radio stuff has got me all Verschimmeinlich. How about some of you
> > radio types broadcasting on a band-width I can receive???
> 
> I'm with George on this one.  All this sexy stuff the HAM's on this list
> describe needs translation into the practical realm of a salt
> water-inundated, mobile VHF unit environment.  Here is what would help
> me:
> 
> 1. Reports from people who have been able to substantiate the range of
> the universally available 5W hand-held rubber ducky-antenna-equipped VHF
> marine radio.  (This is the type of unit 90% of VHF-equipped sea
> kayakers own and use.  Antenna modifications (even a telescoping whip)
> are a liability on the water, owing to the strong likelihood salt water
> will enter the radio and ruin it, unless the unit is completely enclosed
> in a *durable* plastic shroud.)  So who has tested these things *in the
> field* under the conditions sea kayakers would use a VHF?
> 
> A. In the yak, on the water, from yak-to-yak?
> 
> B. In the yak, from a yak to a power boat using the standard 8-foot
> mast?
> 
> C. On the beach, standing up, to either a yak on the water or a power
> boat with the 8-foot mast?
> 
> D. On the beach, standing up, to another similarly located and equipped
> VHF'er?
> 
> 2. Reports from people who have broadcast FROM THE BEACH using
> *simple-to-buy* (or simple-to-make), durable, *radio-safe* antenna
> variations which can extend the radio's range *significantly* -- the
> kind of use a "pinned down" group might make to let the USCG or the
> person holding their float plan know they are safe (or, have an injured
> party member needing medical evacuation).
> 
> As my contribution:
> 
> 1. A:  best I can document is about 3 miles, with some landform
> interference in my line-of-sight to the other yak. (I've had other times
> when I could not raise someone who was about 4 miles away.)
> 
> 1. B. No experience.
> 
> 1. C. I've gotten my 3W unit to make a usable, slightly broken
> transmission about 8 miles across mostly open water to a *land-based*
> 8-ft mast.
> 
> 1. D. I've gotten my 3W unit to make a usable transmission 4.5 miles
> across mostly open water (with only one 150 ft-tall intervening
> ridgelet).  The other guy had a 5W unit, and we agreed later the
> receptions were basically equivalent.  Another time, we tested 5W and 3W
> units, standing up, across a bay, and found good, usable transmissions
> at 3 and 5 miles, but NOTHING at 7 miles.  That surprised us. (We tried
> a whip on the 3W unit.  It did not change this -- we could not document
> any improvement in transmission with the whip.)
> 
> 2. I got no detectable improvement *in transmissions* using a whip
> adjusted to a length apropos for the marine VHF band.  I was warned, by
> the highly-regarded marine radio shop from which I bought my ICOM, that
> an incorrect antena configuration could *damage the radio.*  I own a
> commercially-made dipole on a 6-foot piece of coax which can be tuned to
> the marine VHF band, and hung vertically from a tree (or paddle, etc.).
> I think this should improve performance, but have not been able to test
> it yet.  A ham sent me some terrific plans for a "narrow beam" antenna
> I'd like to try out, but that will have to wait.
> 
> Others?
> --
> Dave Kruger
> Astoria, OR
> There is just a SMALL problem with what you have said.
 Unless I'm the only one out here that doesn't paddle on salt water, and 
is "still" trying to figure out how to get his rubber ducky equimped(sp?) 
marine VHF to talk over 3 or 4 miles on a regular basis, I think there is 
a lot that can be said and covered on radio and antenna's. If you speak 
for the rest of this group then I hope you have fun with all your 
experments with the rubber ducks, marine VHF, and cell phones! I think 
"ALL" have a place, but lets be reasonable, there is a limit to each and 
talking about other ways should not stir up so much negative responces..
HAM radio may not be for everybody, but the fact of the mater is that the 
HAMS have a network (an umbrella if you will), that works when NOTHING 
else does!  We take great pride in being there during times of emergency 
when all the phone lines are down, etc. Helping out is the name of the 
game then!
If you don't believe it, grab a HAM and take him out for a trip(hey may 
even convert someone to kayaking).You will be supprised at how far out on 
the water you can bring up HAM repeaters or even talk direct(other HAMs 
have high gain antenna's and LOVE  proving it!). As was mentioned by Bob, 
most repeaters also have phone patch(you can call the CG, police, your 
wife, etc), and as Michael remarked, the so called "no code" license is 
easy enough to get(if you study), that anybody can get it and it gives 
you axcess to VHF, UHF(lets just say everything a kayaker would want)!
The point is...., I live inland(New Mexico),and still like to see what 
other kayakers are doing. I think there is room for all of us to share a 
bit with each other, no mater where we are, what we paddle(if we spell 
good):>), or EVEN if we just happen to understand the "468 rule", or 
NOT!!
Hope I didn't offend anyone, maybe open an eye...ok, as I've always said" 
we can all carry matches but only through practice and UNDERSTANDING of 
what makes fire, can we stay warm at night"

End of speech!!

James

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From: patrick.maun_at_duffy.com <patrick.maun_at_duffy.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: 04 Mar 98 13:42:37 +0000
Michael J Edelman wrote:
>Narrow beam aka high gain antennas aren't a good choice for seaborne use
unless
>you're in an actively stabilized boat ;-) The antenna must be properly 
>oriented to
>take advantage of the narrow radiation pattern.
>
>A simple whip can be made from a BNC connector, a length of music wire
and a
>plastic bead to protect one's self from the pointy end. It *will* have a
great
>advantage over a rubber duck; duckies are very lossy and can have less
than ten
>percent of the efficiency of a simple whip.  A half-wave marine antenna 
>mounted on
>the deck will have even better efficiency.

What about collapsible antennas that can be unpacked and used in camp. My
main concerns with radios is picking up the weather forecast. This is
actually quite difficult on Superior, at least with the crap I've been using.
I have heard positive reports on the Standard HX255S and the Icom M1
though (thanks Sarah and Chuck).  Can't I do the old TV trick of spreading
some wire all over the place, hooking it up the the radio and hope it picks
something up? OK, that last statement revealed my ignorance of radio waves
and how they work, but you see where I am getting at, right?

Also,  has anyone used the new Uniden HH-940? 

OK, that's a 10-4 good buddy, over and out.

-Patrick


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From: Bob Denton <bob_at_dnax.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:47:19 -5
A Jpole antenna made from TV twin lead and a few dollars woth of 
connectors will do a great job. It will fit in your pocket and give 
you superior performance when hung from a tree.

cya

> Michael J Edelman wrote:
> >Narrow beam aka high gain antennas aren't a good choice for seaborne use
> unless
> >you're in an actively stabilized boat ;-) The antenna must be properly 
> >oriented to
> >take advantage of the narrow radiation pattern.
> >
> >A simple whip can be made from a BNC connector, a length of music wire
> and a
> >plastic bead to protect one's self from the pointy end. It *will* have a
> great
> >advantage over a rubber duck; duckies are very lossy and can have less
> than ten
> >percent of the efficiency of a simple whip.  A half-wave marine antenna 
> >mounted on
> >the deck will have even better efficiency.
> 
> What about collapsible antennas that can be unpacked and used in camp. My
> main concerns with radios is picking up the weather forecast. This is
> actually quite difficult on Superior, at least with the crap I've been using.
> I have heard positive reports on the Standard HX255S and the Icom M1
> though (thanks Sarah and Chuck).  Can't I do the old TV trick of spreading
> some wire all over the place, hooking it up the the radio and hope it picks
> something up? OK, that last statement revealed my ignorance of radio waves
> and how they work, but you see where I am getting at, right?
> 
> Also,  has anyone used the new Uniden HH-940? 
> 
> OK, that's a 10-4 good buddy, over and out.
> 
> -Patrick
> 
> 
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> 
Bob Denton
Vice President 
Undersea Breathing Systems
bob_at_dnax.com
http://www.dnax.com
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From: Chris Hardenbrook <cghbrook_at_earthlink.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 08:23:40 -0800
Very good discussion regarding communications on water.  One thing being left out
is *how* to make that communication.  If you are on CB radio it is acceptable to
use their code communication system to abbreviate certain questions and responses
with your *good buddies*.  Saying "Ten-Four" is the same as "Affirmative";
"What's your Ten-Twenty" asks your location, etc.  It is, however, not good form
to use this language when on VHF radio.

Although there is no longer a requirement to possess a station permit or
operator's license for VHF marine or aviation frequencies (in the USofA), be
aware they are serious items and not to be confused with walkie-talkies and
should not be used as such.  Certain channels are used for specific purposes, and
random chatter about non-essential stuff can interfere with the communications
for which these channels were intended (sometimes a life may hang in the
balance).  It is generally *ok* to find an *empty* channel for personal
communications about the fish that got away, although you better be sure it
really is an empty channel and not one of the commercial fishing channels
(frequently silent but always monitored).

As Patrick no doubt knows, and was no doubt making fun, "Over and Out" shows
absolute amateurism.  You are either Over or Out and should know the difference
:-)

                          >///:>Chris Hardenbrook<:\\\<
                 Very Sunny Bright Beautiful Southern California

patrick.maun_at_duffy.com wrote:

> <SNIP>
>
> OK, that's a 10-4 good buddy, over and out.
>




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From: SG Scorpio <SGScorpio_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 11:57:59 EST
In a message dated 98-03-07 11:28:19 EST, cghbrook_at_earthlink.net writes:

<<  If you are on CB radio it is acceptable to
 use their code communication system to abbreviate certain questions and
responses
 with your *good buddies*.  Saying "Ten-Four" is the same as "Affirmative"; >>

Just to let you know the term "good buddie" refers to a homosexual radio user.
It used to mean "good buddie" was the operator at the other end of the line,
now it means you are identifiying yourself as a good *buddie*.  Be careful out
there!  :)
Steve
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From: Chris Hardenbrook <cghbrook_at_earthlink.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Roger, Wilco. . .
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:15:24 -0800
Gee, George --

I know a lot of our high school students can't identify our states on
the map by
their outlines, the names have to be there for them to know Kansas from
Illinois,
for instance.  But I had no idea we were confused about national
boundries.
So...(pulling down a wall map and rapping on the board with a long
pointy
pointer)...Baja California is part of Mexico.  It is a state of Mexico,
and
geographically a peninsula, joined with the major part of Mexico at the
top, and
separated from "mainland" Mexico's western coast by the Sea of Cortez.

As for the radio lingo...I've had great fun, too.  At a small airport in
low
desert Southern California where there was a lot of sailplane and sport
jumping
activity, we generally discouraged pilots who were unfamiliar with the
area to
attempt landing and sightseeing.  When asked for permission to land,
however, we
couldn't refuse them, so after giving the active runway and wind
conditions, we
informed them they were "queer to land".

True, Southern California around L.A. is full of traffic, smog, road
rage, phony
people, and just about everything else that is a contributing factor to
the
decline of culture and general civility in our great nation.  The same
is true of
many other cosmopolitan areas across the country. Unlike them, however,
within an
hour's drive of Los Angeles there are spectacular sections of scenery
and
seclusion.  Very few other cities have the variety of envirnoments
available so
close at hand.  Right now, for instance, I could go to a beach and enjoy
a clear
warm paddling day, or go into the mountains and ski or snowboard, or go
to the
desert and check out the early wildflowers.

I will not, however, be living here forever.  The fact remains, you do
have to
make an effort to escape the everyday badness.  I wonder if mud and
rednecks are
worse than earthquakes and cellphones?
                          >///:>Chris Hardenbrook<:\\\<
                            Sunny Southern California


Geo. Bergeron wrote:

> At 12:02 PM 3/8/98 -0800, you wrote:

>        Yeah but I'm serious. Is the Baja Penisula part of Mexico or part of
> Californa? I'm not talking social convention here. I'm talking political
> boundaries.
>
>         And we used "Roger Dodger" a lot on the Army radios. . . along with
> "that's a furniture" and "negatron" . . . pissed off the generals really bad.
>
>         What I remember about Southern California is freeways and parking
> lots. . . smog. Of course what I think of when I think about Oregon is mud,
> rain, rednecks.
>
>         Over and out. . . Geo.
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