I know several people out there use kites to take advantage of the wind instead of fighting it to paddle from one place to another. Then, marine radio frequencies are restricted to line of sight communication, which for a kayaker whose head is about 2 feet over the water means a practical maximum of 3 miles due to the curvature of the earth. If someone wanted to make a radio transmition reach very, very far, would it work to lift a wire antenna with a kite? I think it would even be easier to do it from a beach in those cases where the beach happens to be by a cliff wall and radio waves only go out to sea. Also, for emergencies, it would probably be better to carry a short wave ham radio. With that it is almost guaranteed that you can get to someone who may call the rescue people for you. I understand that serious boats and ships carry both VHF and SW radios, which leads me to think that maybe there is a SW frequency to call for help in emergencies; does anyone know which frequency that is? - Julio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Julio MacWilliams <juliom_at_cisco.com> > Subject: [Paddlewise] VHF antenna on a kit, SW radios... > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:59:05 -0800 (PST) > I know several people out there use kites to take advantage of > the wind instead of fighting it to paddle from one place to another. > Then, marine radio frequencies are restricted to line of sight communication, > which for a kayaker whose head is about 2 feet over the water means > a practical maximum of 3 miles due to the curvature of the earth. The length of coax cable you need at VHF frequencies would be so bulky and heavy, it would be impractical. > If someone wanted to make a radio transmition reach very, very far, > would it work to lift a wire antenna with a kite? I think it would > even be easier to do it from a beach in those cases where the beach > happens to be by a cliff wall and radio waves only go out to sea. The ideal length wire is about 6 feet? > Also, for emergencies, it would probably be better to carry a short wave > ham radio. With that it is almost guaranteed that you can get to > someone who may call the rescue people for you. > I understand that serious boats and ships carry both VHF and SW radios, > which leads me to think that maybe there is a SW frequency to call for > help in emergencies; does anyone know which frequency that is? Short Wave radios require a more serious ham license...13 wpm morse code, and the radios are much less tolerant of abuse. cya Bob Denton Vice President Undersea Breathing Systems bob_at_dnax.com http://www.dnax.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Julio MacWilliams wrote: > > I know several people out there use kites to take advantage of > the wind instead of fighting it to paddle from one place to another. > Then, marine radio frequencies are restricted to line of sight communication, > which for a kayaker whose head is about 2 feet over the water means > a practical maximum of 3 miles due to the curvature of the earth. > > If someone wanted to make a radio transmition reach very, very far, > would it work to lift a wire antenna with a kite? I think it would > even be easier to do it from a beach in those cases where the beach > happens to be by a cliff wall and radio waves only go out to sea. > > Also, for emergencies, it would probably be better to carry a short wave > ham radio. With that it is almost guaranteed that you can get to > someone who may call the rescue people for you. > I understand that serious boats and ships carry both VHF and SW radios, > which leads me to think that maybe there is a SW frequency to call for > help in emergencies; does anyone know which frequency that is? > > - Julio > Hello Julio With your interest in kites and being one of people that use kites, thought this might help. Hope you and some of the others will find the following interesting and maybe useful!? In 1919 when Marconi made the first trans-Alantic wireless message, he used a kite to haul his antenna high enough to do the job."so he got the jump on you!!" It was made by Brookite(for what its worth)! :>) also for what its worth..., I have used kites also to get an antenna up higher on both VHF and the HAM HF freqs. With a good steady wind,(12>18)and a parafoil kite in the 8 to 16 sq. ft. range, you can haul a 100' of "mini 8" or "8 X" and something like a flexable J-pole(or even the rubber duck) up with NO problem. Bear in mind you will likely need a second person to control the kite unless you have "very" safe flying area! Give it a try, just be careful, some of the kites can generate a lot of lift and with extra attention being on the antenna, things can get "harry" in a hurry! :>) If you have a Ham friend, you might also try running out the kite 100' or so, tie on 100' of small guage copper wire(don't let it come under load of the kite, just hang limp), and onto it, I have connected 50' of TV twin lead.(just tie on one lead, leaving the other open)."this antenna is called a ZEPP, after the kind of antenna's that was used on the blimps of old" On the other end you will hook to an antenna tuner, then to the SW(HF) radio. Something for you to try, but to transmit, as Bob said, you will need to have a HAM there. It works VERY well, but the truth is, its a bit much to rig and a real mess if it comes down in the wrong place! I usually only use mine for demostrations now days. Also, the US Military used box kites during WW11 for emergency radio transmisions. I still have one. It was called very loving as the "Gibson girl"! I also use my kites for taking aerial photographs, so as you can see I like doing "things" with kites.. Have fun, but just keep thinking about the safty end. Wires, electric lines, kites, and people usually spell disater! James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The size kite and conditions required to fly 100' of mini 8...10 or 12 lbs? would be beyond anyone in a kayak!! Also be advised that you can get the **** knocked out of you flying any kite with a long wire between you and the ground, even if there is no lightning happening. In addition, High Voltage power lines can sneak out of the trees and kill you! BTW, I used to fly kites to altitudes of 2 or 3 miles....once snagged an airplane.. cya Bob Denton Vice President Undersea Breathing Systems bob_at_dnax.com http://www.dnax.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Denton wrote: > > The size kite and conditions required to fly 100' of mini 8...10 or > 12 lbs? would be beyond anyone in a kayak!! > > (SNIP) Its closer to 5 lbs, even less, as you are holding part of the weight.(the whole weight isn't on the line at first and you can "feel" your way along) Its not for everyone. Shouldn't be tried in a kayak without doing it on land and feeling comfortable. It CAN be done and HAS been done by this person.(two man "super" folbot, AND on an inland lake). I would think it would be conciderable less hassle on the open sea where one was not watching a shore line coming up!! :>)"I had a sea sock out that helped some" I do not suggest that this is an emergency radio plan for most. However, it was brought up, and I agree. If someone ALREADY has a kite with them and a VHF radio. Why not carry along the 100' of coxial and give it a try sometime..?(from shore the first time, atleast)This was my intention, to be used from the shore, not water, anyway.. James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I still can't believe 100 feet of coax weighs 5 lbs? I'll have to check when I get home.. cya Bob Denton Vice President Undersea Breathing Systems bob_at_dnax.com http://www.dnax.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Edelman wrote: > > Bob Denton wrote: > > > I still can't believe 100 feet of coax weighs 5 lbs? > > > > Seems about right. But 100 feet of transmission line at 174MHz is gonna be > *very* lossy- like as much as 20dB for small coax- unless you use 9913, which > weighs about 20 lbs per 100'. Or thereabouts. > > I've been thinking about the best lightweight way to do this, like the > possibility of using twin lead, and I've decided the best solution is to lift > the antenna, HT and paddler in the balloon. > You're probably right on target!! :>) If every kayaker was a ham, I'd say, put up a dual band VHF/UHF HT on the kite, and have it set to "cross band" operation! But I won't.....sigh! James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>If every kayaker was a ham, I'd say, put up a dual band VHF/UHF HT on the >kite, and have it set to "cross band" operation! >But I won't.....sigh! Why not James? Off-hand I'd say that your idea is the best of them all... Some foam to pack the radio in, with a fiberglass case for the duck epoxied to the top? Actually, it might not be a bad use for my TH-79A [Hisssss Kenwood Hissss...] Coordinating running a kite while paddling/bracing/etc... might not be all that realistic an expectation of *me,* but others may have less difficulty. The expense of *two* dual band HT's of course is another matter... If I remember correctly, in an emergency *ANYONE* is legal to be a control operator. What the heck, keep the rig set to the most appropriate freq, let your companions know how to power up and push the button marked "PTT"... <shrug> Tom... Tom Weese Kirkland, Wa. Three left turns often make a right... <http://www.isomedia.com/homes/gadfly/> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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