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From: Fred Brown <jfbjr_at_mindspring.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: Icom M1]
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:02:37 -0400

attached mail follows:


A warning to all.  I used my newly purchased Icom M1 VHF radio for the
first time last week.  I was in my kayak, on the water, in 20-25 winds.
Receive was fine. I actually maybe had it a little loud because it would
startle me when Coast Guard would transmit.  I then was going through
the practice of transmitting.  Remember this was the FIRST time I used
the radio for transmit.  I had no more than intiated the call when a
gust occurred.  My radio hand went to the paddle loom for a brace.  This
is what I would call a likely scenerio.  Upon the radio impacting the
loom, the battery jettisoned off into the water, leaving me holding a
useless radio.   Preventative measures  probably should be taken by
users of this radio given my single experience.

I've not yet contacted Icom  (waiting for the west side to wake).

Fred


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From: <pbaum_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: Icom M1]
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:30:14 -0500 (CDT)
On 04/20/98 12:02:37 you wrote:

Fred recently posted a message in his attachment that while reaching for his 
paddle to do a quick brace in 20-25 knot winds, the VHF radio collided with 
the paddle popping his only NI-CD battery into the water.



I haven't encountered anything so dramatic but the number 1 buying criteria 
I used the last time to buy a VHF radio was that it should feed on akaline 
batteries so I could carry a replacement set.  I've "had it" with NI-CD 
battery operated cell phones and laptops that become increasingly unreliable 
(as the battery gets used) and "self-discharge", sometimes in as little as 
2-3 days. 

On a recent camping trip, I carried some spare lightweight AA batteries that 
could be used either in the VHF radio, a flashlight, or a small 1 battery 
AM/FM radio.  I found the NOAA weather channels on the VHF radios to be very 
accurate on this trip.  

For some reason, the manufacturers don't seem to make akaline powered 
handheld radios in the "waterproof" radios.  (They don't seem to realize 
that most kayakers don't carry a 110 volt power cord with them-maybe)  I 
have recently ordered a second VHF radio, the ICOM M10A, from Defender 
Industries, on the WEB for $135.  Very compact and lightweight with 2.5 watt 
power.  Not waterproof so I'll keep it in a baggy. 

By the way, some vendors apparently make auxiliary battery packs, some of 
which use akaline batteries, I don't have much detail on them.

Phil Baumgaertner
Bremerton, Washington 

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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_seasurf.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] NiCads in a VHF
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:58:13 -0700
pbaum_at_ix.netcom.com wrote:

> [Snip] ... the number 1 buying criteria
> I used the last time to buy a VHF radio was that it should feed on akaline
> batteries so I could carry a replacement set.  I've "had it" with NI-CD
> battery operated cell phones and laptops that become increasingly unreliable
> (as the battery gets used) and "self-discharge", sometimes in as little as
> 2-3 days.

[snip]  

You have hit on my pet peeve for handheld VHF units.  I used to fly RC
models, and learned many times not to trust NiCads.  Many unanticipated
failures, even though I cycled and tested the batteries regularly.  The
insidious thing about NiCads with a VHF is that the degradation is very
subtle, especially if you do NOT regularly use the battery to
exhaustion.  Then, one fine day when you REALLY need that VHF, you find
that it only lasts for 10 minutes of transmission instead of the
expected (and rated) 30 minutes.  I think NiCads are good for someone
who can always recharge *every night*  (forget solar recharge), and who
can carry a spare pack.
 
> For some reason, the manufacturers don't seem to make alkaline powered
> handheld radios in the "waterproof" radios.  [snip]  I
> have recently ordered a second VHF radio, the ICOM M10A, from Defender
> Industries, on the WEB for $135.  Very compact and lightweight with 2.5 watt
> power.  Not waterproof so I'll keep it in a baggy.
> 
> By the way, some vendors apparently make auxiliary battery packs, some of
> which use akaline batteries, I don't have much detail on them.

I own two of the ICOM M10A units, and swear by 'em.  Wish they came with
another alkaline pack variant to boost the output on TX to 5W  (there is
a NiCad pack option which will do that).  However, I've never (yet) had
a situation where I felt the 3W (or, 2.5W) hurt me.  Might be in my
future, though.  I've made contact off the beach 8 miles to an 8 ft VHF
whip (shore-based, maybe 10 feet off the water), and I think that's
close to the practical range for a 5W under similar conditions.

(Yesterday I was on the River for several hours and monitored shipping
traffic on Ch 13 -- which was really yapping up a storm -- and I could
easily hear their ONE WATT transmissions over a distance of 5 miles,
with broken reception at 8 miles, and probably nothing at 10 miles.  Of
course, all those units were using tall antennas, some from a freighter
mast, and most off tugs.)

Even though the M10A is not a "submersible" unit, I believe the thicker
plastic radio bags give good protection, if you do not abuse them.

I have punctured two bags.  One was at a seam because I sat on the bag
and popped it from over-pressurizing the interior!  The other occurred
due to a "hard edge" from the radio (was not an M10A) wearing through. 
Both punctures were easily (and permanently) fixed with vinyl repair
fluid from REI.  Neither puncture resulted in water infiltration, so I
never lost a radio.  A guy I know from Corvallis, OR, who regularly uses
a handheld VHF replaces his radio bag every 12 months.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Keith Kaste <kkaste_at_slip.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: Icom M1]
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:48:26 -0700
I have a VHF made by Standard.  I have both the NiCad and Alkaline battery
packs.  It claims to be water proof but I keep it in one of those water proof
bags from West Marine when it sits on my deck.  I have not had a problem with my
NiCad batteries.  You are supposed to let the batteries discharge fully before
recharging them.  If you are always putting them back on the recharger you will
have the problem I think you're describing.

Keith Kaste

pbaum_at_ix.netcom.com wrote:
 I've "had it" with NI-CD battery operated cell phones and laptops that become
increasingly unreliable
(as the battery gets used) and "self-discharge", sometimes in as little as 2-3
days...

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From: Sisler, Clyde <Clyde.Sisler_at_wang.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: Icom M1]
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:52:02 -0400
> batteries so I could carry a replacement set.  I've "had it" with
> NI-CD 
> battery operated cell phones and laptops that become increasingly
> unreliable 
> (as the battery gets used) and "self-discharge", sometimes in as
> little as 
> 2-3 days. 
> 
	Go figure!  I'm trying to go the opposite direction.  I want to
start using NICAD because all/most of the solar powered battery chargers
I've seen are for NICAD.  What size NICAD batteries did your old VHF
take?

> AM/FM radio.  I found the NOAA weather channels on the VHF radios to
> be very 
> accurate on this trip.  
> 
	I'm still using an old 7 band thing I picked up at Radio Shack. 

> For some reason, the manufacturers don't seem to make akaline powered 
> handheld radios in the "waterproof" radios.  (They don't seem to
> realize 
> that most kayakers don't carry a 110 volt power cord with them-maybe)
> I 
> 
	Somehow I have think we're way down on their list groups sold
to.  :-)

> have recently ordered a second VHF radio, the ICOM M10A, from Defender
> 
> Industries, on the WEB for $135.  Very compact and lightweight with
> 2.5 watt 
> power.  Not waterproof so I'll keep it in a baggy. 
> 
	I've had real good luck with Defender.  They are consistantly
10% below West Marine and way below Boat/US.  West Marine has a sale
right now on Tasco Voyager Binoculars for $244 (I think) down from $299.
Defender has been selling them all along for $249.


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From: JCMARTIN43 <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: Icom M1]
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:37:56 EDT
In a message dated 98-04-20 15:50:14 EDT, Clyde.Sisler_at_wang.com writes:

<< 	I've had real good luck with Defender.  They are consistantly
 10% below West Marine and way below Boat/US. >>
 
Seconded on Defender.  But I've also had good luck with Defender's <catalog>,
too; more often than not, the chains --- West Marine, Boats'r'Us, etc. ---
will sell you anything you want that they have in stock at the Defender price
if you have Defender's current catalog with you.

(Cheap) Joq
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From: Jennifer Joy <jjoy_at_tri.sbc.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: Icom M1]
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:25:59 -0500 (CDT)
JCMARTIN43 said:
> 
> In a message dated 98-04-20 15:50:14 EDT, Clyde.Sisler_at_wang.com writes:
> 
> << 	I've had real good luck with Defender.  They are consistantly
>  10% below West Marine and way below Boat/US. >>
>  
> Seconded on Defender.  But I've also had good luck with Defender's <catalog>,
> too; more often than not, the chains --- West Marine, Boats'r'Us, etc. ---
> will sell you anything you want that they have in stock at the Defender price
> if you have Defender's current catalog with you.
> 
> (Cheap) Joq

To follow that up, all I've needed is the better priced shop's 1-800
number.  With West Marine they called to check if the item was in stock
(I always check first) then they give it to you at that price, no
catalog needed.  My only experience has been with West Marine.  They
even have some discount codes in their computer for places like
Defender (sometimes it is highly entertaining to watch your order being
keyed in).

equally cheap,
 jen

-- 
   Jennifer Joy   SBC Technology Resources          Austin,TX
jjoy_at_tri.sbc.com     512.372.5517            fax:512.372.5591
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From: Sisler, Clyde <Clyde.Sisler_at_wang.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: Icom M1]
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:45:59 -0400
> << 	I've had real good luck with Defender.  They are consistantly
>  10% below West Marine and way below Boat/US. >>
>  
> Seconded on Defender.  But I've also had good luck with Defender's
> <catalog>,
> 
	Actually I only use their catalog.  They don't have much online
yet.

> too; more often than not, the chains --- West Marine, Boats'r'Us, etc.
> ---
> will sell you anything you want that they have in stock at the
> Defender price
> if you have Defender's current catalog with you.
> 
	Yeah, but..... The fact they list higher prices and then are
willing to come down to match competitors, implies (to me) they're
perfectly happy ripping you off for whatever you're willing to pay.
I'm not a haggler and perfer to work with a company that (to me) has
more integrity.

	I'll admit West Marine and Boat/US have prettier catalogs with
lots of good information.  I do my browsing and reading through their
catalogs but go to Defender's for price.  I did make one order with West
Marine and received a defective air (lung) horn and had no problem with
getting a replacement.

	Another difference is Defender is on the east coast (with me)
and West Marine's catalog sales is on the west coast so I get thing
faster from Defender.

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From: JCMARTIN43 <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: Icom M1]
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:35:51 EDT
In a message dated 98-04-21 09:43:35 EDT, Clyde.Sisler_at_wang.com writes:

<<  The fact [West Marine and Boats US] list higher prices and then are
 willing to come down to match competitors, implies (to me) they're
 perfectly happy ripping you off for whatever you're willing to pay.
 I'm not a haggler and perfer to work with a company that (to me) has
 more integrity. >>

No, that's just called retailing.  West Marine's got a different operating
structure and very different overhead to suppport --- like that four-color
catalog that you're ripping them off for!  (Don't know what their new
operation in Connecticut is like, but their old warehouse in New Rochelle, NY
made it easy to see why they could shave their prices the way they did!)  So
there's some of that cost built into the regular retailers' prices, which most
people will pay 'cause, like you, they're not hagglers.  Now, Cheap Jen and I
might be willing to do your haggling for you, Clyde --- for a small cut for
<our> overhead.  (I'm even discussing with her the idea of setting up an
operation to retail some of Ari's almost-dried fish for the North Ameriacn
market!)

Joq
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