Jackie asked about qualifications for the event. This organizer (Mark Burnett) tries harder than anyone else in the world to have suitably qualified teams involved. By contrast, some of the more 'salt-of-the-earth' competitions (which are often more 'interesting' than the made-for-tv ones) require nothing - just expect that if you don't know what you're doing, you won't be foolish enough to start. After the debacle in the 1996 Eco-Challenge (British Columbia), when 4 teams completed the entire course and another 10 a somewhat shortened version (out of 72 starters !!!), Eco-Challenge switched from "entry fee" to "invitation". This allowed them to vet teams more carefully and select those who have the relevant experience. However, as is often the case, the promise of some human interest TV resulted in less stringent requirements for some entries. NEVERTHELESS, once ACCEPTED, everyone was expected to learn what they didn't know. Eco-Challenge issues a continuous barrage of requirements and warnings. To go to the start line, you were expected to heed what was in these bulletins and prepare accordingly. Since the missives began arriving almost a year before the event, there is PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY to learn at least the fundamentals and NO EXCUSE for not doing so. FURTHERMORE, there were tests before the race (and in some cases written certification required). Generally these tests were performed by local outfitters, riggers, horseowners etc - the people who would ultimately be responsible for dealing with safety situations that arose. And they tended to be picky (as rightly they should be). Clearly, no one will become an expert in every discipline in a year, if they start with little or no experience. Nevertheless, this race organizer strikes a reasonable balance between vetting what people know and telling them what they ought to know. Ultimately, it's an individual's decision (or a team's) as to whether they're fit to do something; all the organizer can do is highlight the difficulties. In last night's showing, you saw several teams elect not to "rap" over a waterfall in the dark and some proceeded. Those who did then faced a whitewater swim in the dark - considerably more daunting than the "rap" under those circumstances. But reasonable judgements were being made and there was plenty of support available for those who got into difficulty. Mark Burnett and the producers at Discovery spend more on safety precautions than most races have for their entire race budget. The challenge I and others face as we try to help organizers host more races all around the world is to find means of matching skills to dangers appropriately. Not everyone can hope to have the kind of money Discovery is willing to pay for safety coverage and yet our new Adventure Racing Association is keen to see more events staged *and* there is a hunger out there for more events for participants. As you can imagine, I've watched with fervent interest the heated discussions on judgement, safety, risks and certification on this and other forums (wish you would allow me to say 'fora'). And I've learned much from both the reasoned voices and the shrill. Cheers RN (captain, Team Eco-Internet) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert J. Nagle http://yuri.harvard.edu/~nagle *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Robert J. Nagle" <nagle_at_tammy.harvard.edu> > > Jackie asked about qualifications for the event. Oh, wow! I didn't realize the '96 and '97 Eco-Challenge winning team captain was on PaddleWise! Thanks for your reply! This takes a lot of second-guessing out of the who's, what's, and why's. Nice to have you here! :-) > This organizer (Mark Burnett) tries harder than anyone else in the > world to have suitably qualified teams involved. By contrast, some of > the more 'salt-of-the-earth' competitions (which are often more > 'interesting' than the made-for-tv ones) require nothing - just expect > that if you don't know what you're doing, you won't be foolish enough > to start. > > After the debacle in the 1996 Eco-Challenge (British Columbia), when 4 > teams completed the entire course and another 10 a somewhat shortened > version (out of 72 starters !!!), Eco-Challenge switched from "entry > fee" to "invitation". This allowed them to vet teams more carefully That was pretty "enlightenting" info about the '96 event (more details can be found on the moutainzone and echochallenge websites). Some comments from interviews of organizers were that they thought that possibly they had made the course *too* difficult. Sounds like unexpected bad weather played a big part as well as the lack of realistic expectation of participants' own skills or possible dangers (a seemingly all-to-common problem with sea kayakers that get into trouble - overestimate experience and underestimate the elements). > NEVERTHELESS, once ACCEPTED, everyone was expected to learn what they > didn't know. Eco-Challenge issues a continuous barrage of > requirements and warnings. To go to the start line, you were expected > to heed what was in these bulletins and prepare accordingly. Since > the missives began arriving almost a year before the event, there is > PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY to learn at least the fundamentals and NO EXCUSE > for not doing so. I got the impression that the team from Northern Ireland somehow missed the cue on the level of difficulty for this trip (the team with one of the members admitting to never having paddled a canoe before this race and also carrying the portable radio and cheese cuttingboard in their mountainous backpacks). I suppose their goal was more of publicity for their cause rather than for serious effort in participation of the race. But I also realize that I'm watching tv so I'm not sure how accurate the report. I believe also, this was the team that had a team member that could not swim (to be aired in tonight's episode). > FURTHERMORE, there were tests before the race (and in some cases > written certification required). Generally these tests were performed > by local outfitters, riggers, horseowners etc - the people who would > ultimately be responsible for dealing with safety situations that > arose. And they tended to be picky (as rightly they should be). I was wondering, though, how they missed that a participant could not swim and one participant had never paddled a canoe in his life. Did they know this and just let it fly for the sake of publicity for their (the North Ireland team) cause? > Clearly, no one will become an expert in every discipline in a year, > if they start with little or no experience. Nevertheless, this race > organizer strikes a reasonable balance between vetting what people > know and telling them what they ought to know. Ultimately, it's an > individual's decision (or a team's) as to whether they're fit to do > something; all the organizer can do is highlight the difficulties. Thanks for that clarification. I heard on an earlier report that one of the teams that participated in '97 (Killroy) was not accepted into this year's race because the organizers believed them not to have enough experience. For those interested, the 1998 Eco-Challenge is to be held in Morocco in October. Eco-Challenge teams must have a mix of male/female participants. > In last night's showing, you saw several teams elect not to "rap" over > a waterfall in the dark and some proceeded. Those who did then faced > a whitewater swim in the dark - considerably more daunting than the > "rap" under those circumstances. But reasonable judgements were being > made and there was plenty of support available for those who got into > difficulty. I also noted that there was a blackout called by the organizers for the whitewater rafting (if teams did not reach the put-in for the whitewater rafting in time to finish that portion before dark, then they were required to wait until the following day). However, the canoeing portion was allowed to continue in the dark. The water appeared to be moving at a rather slow to medium rate... not dangerous. I did like that, for the most part, the organizer wanted the teams to make their own choices. One team chose not to rapel and instead took what they thought would be a shorter route over a hill which was reported as dangerous due to the loose rocks and steep climb which the participants did not expect. Teams were allowed to choose whether to rapel and swim the distance across the river to climb the other side. > Mark Burnett and the producers at Discovery spend more on safety > precautions than most races have for their entire race budget. The This includes ropes set up to get the team members over the section of a river which suddenly and unexepectedly became inhabited by some saltwater crocs that decided to swim upstream 8-} I did notice that a lot of effort was made towards safety precautions. > challenge I and others face as we try to help organizers host more > races all around the world is to find means of matching skills to > dangers appropriately. Not everyone can hope to have the kind of > money Discovery is willing to pay for safety coverage and yet our new > Adventure Racing Association is keen to see more events staged *and* > there is a hunger out there for more events for participants. > > As you can imagine, I've watched with fervent interest the heated > discussions on judgement, safety, risks and certification on this and > other forums (wish you would allow me to say 'fora'). And I've > learned much from both the reasoned voices and the shrill. I recommend this documentary. It is well done and this is really interesting stuff on many levels. And congratualtions, Robert! (uh, the correct URL for Robert's page is http://yuri.harvard.edu/~nagle/ I mistakenly added a www in there... sorry 8-} btw, I would love to see any comments you might have about the Texas Water Safari. And good luck! :-) Cheers, Jackie _ _ _ _ _ \\ / \0/ \ / \0/ \ \\ " " `\ ,sSSs,\, )\w/( ,sSS..)/{) <<..> sSSS_v)/ \ )<*> sSS[(\_]___\ <(_/_o_o_ 'sS[_`-+---+) \----+-------+-------'---`-----\-------------') ~~~~~~~ ~~jf ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~\~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ o \ o \\ o o \\ o o ` (\ o o >jf:-) o (/ o *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> wrote: jackie> I was wondering, though, how they missed that a participant could not jackie> swim and one participant had never paddled a canoe in his life. Did There is no swim test required. However one rule says, in its entirety, "as a condition of entry, participants are expected to be able to swim". In Queensland, the only paddling test was a self rescue in a pool. jackie> Thanks for that clarification. I heard on an earlier report that one jackie> of the teams that participated in '97 (Killroy) was not accepted jackie> into this year's race because the organizers believed them not to have jackie> enough experience. Every year, the standards are raised. There have not been many opportunities for teams to race and acquire demonstrable experience. But fortunately that situation is changing. jackie> I also noted that there was a blackout called by the organizers for jackie> the whitewater rafting (if teams did not reach the put-in for the jackie> whitewater rafting in time to finish that portion before dark, then jackie> they were required to wait until the following day). However, the jackie> canoeing portion was allowed to continue in the dark. The rafting was the only section that had a "dark zone". The kayaking and canoeing both went on all round the clock. In past years we've done class 3 drops in Canadian canoes at 1 AM (no moon) - now that was stupid. jackie> I did like that, for the most part, the organizer wanted the teams to jackie> make their own choices. One team chose not to rapel and instead took jackie> what they thought would be a shorter route over a hill which was jackie> reported as dangerous due to the loose rocks and steep climb which jackie> the participants did not expect. Teams were allowed to choose whether jackie> to rapel and swim the distance across the river to climb the other jackie> side. The TV show was very unlcear about this so you may have drawn improper conclusions. In fact, all of the rope sections were compulsory (and the white water swim). The segment on Pure Energy scrambling up a crumbly face occurred *after* they had ascended the ropes after the ww swim. There was still about 100-200 feet from the top of the ropes to the canyon rim - that's where they became a little exposed. What they were scrambling over was pure powder. But yes (to tie things vaguely back to Paddlewise charter) judgement is a significant factor in adventure racing. The most significant probably has to do with sleep - when to, how much to. But it enters into a thousand decisions a day - drink this water or not, route finding (on water and land), picking lines (on water and land), etc. jackie> btw, I would love to see any comments you might have about the Texas jackie> Water Safari. And good luck! :-) I refuse to comment on the ground that I might incriminate myself (I'm dealing with Texans - they're alreay hoisting my petard). RN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert J. Nagle http://yuri.harvard.edu/~nagle *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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