Dave Kruger and his charming, witty, and gracious SO Becky Smith invited me for a Sunday paddle to celebrate my 50th. birthday. We started at the Pig 'N' Pancake in Astoria where Dave seems to be on a first name basis with most of the help and the half of the customers who actually live in Astoria. Our intinerary was to paddle with the ebb from Knappa Dock downstream to the East Basin Moorage. This was a new concept to me: We were going to shuttle the cars and paddle one-way. I've never had the social skills to get the car shuttle routine down. . . probably why I don't do a lot of white-water yakking. Having put away the best that "The Pig" has to offer, we parked Becky's car at the East Basin and then drove the boats to Knappa for the launch at about 8:30 AM. At the Knappa Dock we met three students from OSU who were doing a Common Tern population study for the area. One of the objectives of their study is to extrapolate the population and then compute the biomass energy required to support the flocks. These figures can presumably be applied to fish populations and sport gamefish regulation. But mostly it's data for an M.A. thesis. My initials aren't G.A.B. for nothing, and seeing as how it's my 50th. birthday, and how waitresses at "The Pig" keep the coffee cups filled, I was rattling endlessly about life, aging, insight, the weather, and nearly everything else while getting into the boat. Sitting on the rear coaming, I managed to shift my weight to the wrong gunwale and dive sidelong into the water. Sort of a half-century baptism, I suppose! Beck waited as Dave and I dumped out my cockpit and got underway. This was my first time out with Becky in her spanking new Eddyline Sea Star --a bright yellow-over-white model she calls "Sunny Side Up" or "Fast Eddy." Dave kept kidding Becky about putting a drogue chute on her stern so we could keep up with her. It's a very nice boat, much faster than her old Aquaterra. We headed north from the Knappa Dock across the glass smooth water. Lot's of Scaups --which being French Canadian, I call "scopes." Dave and Becky call them "scalps." Rounding the first island (We won't be specific. It's a secret!), we started moving into a fog bank. This prompted a re-run of most of the thread here in Paddle-Wise about crossings in the fog. Although far removed from the shipping lanes, there was still the possibility of meeting a motor-boat out fishing. Dave and Becky have compasses on deck (I do too, since this trip.), and our strategy was to find a marker buoy and then set a course for another buoy a few miles down river. We rafted together to compare charts and to dig odds and ends out of cockpits, to adjust clothing and paddling positions. While we were doing this, the fog moved west a ways and we had clear paddling using a shore line for bearings. But for a while there, my real concern was our getting separated and trying to navigate in a dense fog. Onward! Dave keeps this route secret because of the wildlife. Actually there's a shoal out of sight of land that's populated with gorgeous sirens. We tie tie ourselves to the bungies, and Becky tows us through the area while wearing her ear plugs. It's a secret and mystical route, and a dangerous stretch for young sailors. Dave likes to keep the route a secret because of his overweaning concern for the safety of others. . . Moving right along. . . The birds were thick on the water. We spotted several bald eagles, actually saw two standing in the deep grass on the shoreline, a hawk or two, some herons, several loons, grebes, mergansers, cormorants, Canada geese, scaups, surf scoters. (I call them "scooters" because of the way they take off.) River traffic was heavy with tugs pulling barges. We made more or less a bee-line for the tip of Tongue Point and eventually ran into the sand shoals between the North Channel and the Woody Island Channel. (Out by the sirens!) Although several miles from shore in all directions, we soon were reduced to stepping out of the boats and pulling them behind us through the ankle deep water. Out here in the middle of the shoals and sunshine we stopped for lunch. Becky decided to sit in her pretty new yellow Sea Star while Dave and I stood in the soft sand and scanned the area with our binoculars (sirens). After eating, we headed a bit south toward deeper water and then took up the heading for Tongue Point once again. By this time there were several fishing boats (recreational) near the point. One small boat seemed to have no one aboard. We whistled a bit and managed to scare up the occupant, seemingly napping/sunning somewhere toward the bow judging from the set of the hull. I was a bit surprised at the distance to the East Mooring Basin from Tongue Point. I had confused the basin with the western Naval docks just on the other side of the point. The paddle was just the right length. Becky was starting to poop out a bit (so we could keep up with her!) and as we rounded Tongue Point, the wildlife thinned as we entered the east end of Astoria. Gliding past the cannery at the entrance to the Basin, we talked to a man on the pier waiting for a fishing boat to come in. The rock jetty at the Basin is a favorite haul-out of Sea Lions--largely because of the nearby cannery. Dave barked at them and managed to get most of them off the rocks and into the water. There were perhaps two dozen Sea Lions. I'd never been this close to them. They're about the size of a Volkswagen. As they'd surface they'd look at Dave barking, then I'd bark and they'd look toward me, then dive. Becky stayed way away from them. As I said at the outset. This shuttle stuff is all new to me. Dave factitously reminded me not to forget my keys before heading back to pick up the other cars--and a good thing too. I keep the keys and my ID in the spray skirt and had removed it and stowed it in the boat. Almost left the keys behind! Dave notes that we first started paddling together October 18, 1997. Before that I just horsed around for six months in a "Pokey" on the Willamette. This trip is one of the first I've done in warm, sunny weather. It's nice to be able to put on the wet-suit without getting wet from the rain in the process. It was a good day for a 50th birthday. Thanks Dave! Thanks Becky! I had a swell time! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Geo. Bergeron wrote: > > Dave Kruger and his charming, witty, and gracious SO invited me for a > Sunday paddle to celebrate my 50th. birthday. [snip; George, you omitted "beautiful"] > We headed north from the Knappa Dock across the glass smooth water.[snip] > Rounding the first island (We won't be specific. It's a secret!) ... [major snip] > This trip is one of the first I've done in warm, sunny weather. > It's nice to be able to put on the wet-suit without getting wet from the > rain in the process. It was a good day for a 50th birthday. Thanks Dave! > Thanks Becky! I had a swell time! Well, George, you are welcome. Every time you turn 50, we'll do that trip. Your posting has triggered something I was hesitating on. I bet everybody who subscribes to this list has a "secret spot" like the one we took George to. And, I bet each of us is VERY ambivalent about "sharing" it with the multitudes. The text after the signature (below) appeared in a late-night haze (beer *was* involved) several hours after the trip George described . George did not know it, but there is a potential "sea kayak expressway" planned for "my" secret spot. Note: it's not really my spot, of course. It truly belongs to no one or to everyone, or maybe to the critters. Here's my blast of angst. I'll hide under my flame shield for a few days and resurface when the air temps recede to tolerable. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR "What a Critter Needs" [No copyright, no ownership, just angst ...] In Oregon we are in the throes of sorting out which of our various salmon stocks and steelhead runs should be classified as "threatened," and which should be labeled "endangered." This, in a region which *in the memory of 70-year-old folks,* had more salmon migrating up the Columbia River than humans could catch with traps, wheels, gill nets, set nets, spears, and hooks. In my time here (just 25 years) I have seen the salmon runs on the Columbia River go from monstrous to minuscule. None of this can be attributed to overfishing. As Clinton might have said, "It's the habitat, stupid!" In the midst of this salmon disaster, it has been suggested that the local economy switch to "ecotourism," which translates, in part, into "paddle a sea kayak down a slough and look at the birds and the seals." In fact, a Portland-based history buff has proposed (and even put up little purple direction arrows on pilings for) a "Water Trail" commemorating the voyage of discovery -- Lewis and Clark's excursion to the sea. The proposed Water Trail passes through the guts of two adjacent National Wildlife Refuges, one nominally devoted to the (endangered) Columbia White-tailed Deer, and the other to waterfowl, more or less. Now, I've spent an afternoon a week for maybe 4-5 years, paddling ALL OVER the habitat the Water Trail will traverse. Man, I know this place. I know where the animals feel comfy and where they flee. And, frankly, even without a Water Trail, there are damn few places where waterfowl and seals can avoid human exposure. One of my favorite, most unreachable ones will be right in the middle of the "freeway" this Water Trail will generate, passing through waters the powerboat crowd can not touch (too shallow). [This is "Dave's secret spot," per George's post.] So, here's my question to the assembled wisdom of the Paddlewise throng: How should such a wildlife region be managed? All of this water is "navigable," and can not legally be "fenced off" for the protection of wildlife. Virtually all of the people who will use the proposed Water Trail will be good, conscientious folks who would sooner commit hari-kari than crush a baby duck. Yet, 80 per cent of them will, in their ignorance, blithely paddle down sloughs, completely unaware that their presence is scarifying the very animals they would protect with their donations and letters, if sensitively publicized on TV. Enough of them, as an aggregate, will "crush baby ducks" by making those sloughs and backwaters untenable for nurturing small waterfowl, not to speak of the effects of disturbance on over-wintering birds. We've know for a long time that the enemy is us, especially more of us. I just need some help sorting out how to handle all of this. What's a body to do? Hayduke's methods seem inappropriate here! Thanks for your help. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
George did not know it, but there is a >potential "sea kayak expressway" planned for "my" secret spot. Note: >it's not really my spot, of course. It truly belongs to no one or to >everyone, or maybe to the critters. > >Here's my blast of angst. I'll hide under my flame shield for a few >days and resurface when the air temps recede to tolerable. >-- >Dave Kruger >Astoria, OR Virtually all of the people who will use the >proposed Water Trail will be good, conscientious folks who would sooner >commit hari-kari than crush a baby duck. Yet, 80 per cent of them will, >in their ignorance, blithely paddle down sloughs, completely unaware >that their presence is scarifying the very animals they would protect >with their donations and letters, if sensitively publicized on TV. >Enough of them, as an aggregate, will "crush baby ducks" by making those >sloughs and backwaters untenable for nurturing small waterfowl, not to >speak of the effects of disturbance on over-wintering birds. >Thanks for your help. Dave train one or two ducks to be KILLER DUCKS and spread rumors about how dangerous they are and how many canoe and kayakers they have killed or harmed. Say the Government will not tell you about it because it likes to keep secrets , The Kennedy assassination, area 51, etc. That way it will be believable. Around camp fires this will go over good especially if you do a little duck dirty work at night so the people will know how lucky they are to live thru it.Legions like Big Foot started this way. Really this is a problem that has no good answer and a potential to do much harm. May be you could have some of the areas set aside for resting zones for wild life, to get away from us. My thought is that animals adapt well and in a few years will come accustom to the inconvenience of us in their territory and become tolerant .May be a limited number of people at one given day would help. Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
(big snip of totally justified angst) >We've know for a long time that the enemy is us, especially more of us. >I just need some help sorting out how to handle all of this. What's a >body to do? Hayduke's methods seem inappropriate here! > >Thanks for your help. First, who's Hayduke? Yes, the enemy is us and I can certainly dive into my own deep pool of angst, even without the beer ;) if I follow that thought. I don't foresee any fewer of us (though one never knows what plans Gaia, and the rest of our species, have for us); in fact, plenty more of us. Years ago I was all thrilled with ecotourism. But then I began to see what was happening to places of incerdible beauty, when they were made more accessible. Long Beach. I cried. Sombrio. I cried. Right in front of all the surfers. It used to be hard to get to these places, but it was worth it. Now it's easy, and not so worth it. I was shocked by the bureaucracy interfering in my wilderness experience when a quota system was instituted five or six years ago, for hiking the West Coast Trail here on the Island. But I support it now. Given the numbers of us who want to be there at any given time, we have to agree to some method of filtering us through. Once you're on the trail, you pretty well have to finish at the other end, unless you can find a way to get to the windsurfers' camp up the river in the middle, and go out there. I think that's harder now than it used to be. (That's how I came in,last time). It is easier to check permits on a point a to point b land trail than on a water trail. However, we, the enemy, may have to agree to limit our own access to some of the places we would like to be able to get to whenever the spirit moves us, and get in line for a permit. Someone would have to be out there checking permits, and arguing wih people who didn't have one.... I'm surprised that I'm onside with needing a permit but our love is killing the wild places. I want to to back to Vargas Island this summer. To years ago there was one tour group farther down the beach. What will it be this year? The Vargas Starbuck's? And by just being there,I am part of the problem. Last year in Nootka Sound I met a couple from Oregon who were lamenting what had happened to much of the waterfront there, and were urging us who call BC home to do all we could to prevent that happening here. I trust WC2 nd the Georgia Strait Alliance and the Marine Trails Association to act in the interest of the wild places and cretures, and to encourage responsible paddling. I try to keep in mind what I learn from others about leaving the wild ones space and not getting too close. About low impact on the places I visit. Maybe I'll just paddle the harbour and watch the nesting habits of the elusive seaplanes while dodging whale watching tour boats and tourist sailboats and motorcraft! ;) Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hayduke Lives! See The Monkey Wrench Gang, by Edward Abbey. Soon to be released as a motion picture. Roger dianem_at_sd61.bc.ca wrote: > (big snip of totally justified angst) > >We've know for a long time that the enemy is us, especially more of us. > >I just need some help sorting out how to handle all of this. What's a > >body to do? Hayduke's methods seem inappropriate here! > > > >Thanks for your help. > > First, who's Hayduke? > > Yes, the enemy is us and I can certainly dive into my own deep pool of > angst, even without the beer ;) if I follow that thought. I don't foresee > any fewer of us (though one never knows what plans Gaia, and the rest of > our species, have for us); in fact, plenty more of us. Years ago I was all > thrilled with ecotourism. But then I began to see what was happening to > places of incerdible beauty, when they were made more accessible. Long > Beach. I cried. Sombrio. I cried. Right in front of all the surfers. It > used to be hard to get to these places, but it was worth it. Now it's easy, > and not so worth it. > > I was shocked by the bureaucracy interfering in my wilderness experience > when a quota system was instituted five or six years ago, for hiking the > West Coast Trail here on the Island. But I support it now. Given the > numbers of us who want to be there at any given time, we have to agree to > some method of filtering us through. Once you're on the trail, you > pretty well have to finish at the other end, unless you can find a way to > get to the windsurfers' camp up the river in the middle, and go out there. > I think that's harder now than it used to be. (That's how I came in,last > time). It is easier to check permits on a point a to point b land trail > than on a water trail. However, we, the enemy, may have to agree to limit > our own access to some of the places we would like to be able to get to > whenever the spirit moves us, and get in line for a permit. Someone would > have to be out there checking permits, and arguing wih people who didn't > have one.... > > I'm surprised that I'm onside with needing a permit but our love is > killing the wild places. > > I want to to back to Vargas Island this summer. To years ago there was one > tour group farther down the beach. What will it be this year? The Vargas > Starbuck's? > And by just being there,I am part of the problem. > > Last year in Nootka Sound I met a couple from Oregon who were lamenting > what had happened to much of the waterfront there, and were urging us who > call BC home to do all we could to prevent that happening here. > > I trust WC2 nd the Georgia Strait Alliance and the Marine Trails > Association to act in the interest of the wild places and cretures, and to > encourage responsible paddling. I try to keep in mind what I learn from > others about leaving the wild ones space and not getting too close. About > low impact on the places I visit. > > Maybe I'll just paddle the harbour and watch the nesting habits of the > elusive seaplanes while dodging whale watching tour boats and tourist > sailboats and motorcraft! ;) > > Diane > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The last time we went to Barkley Sound, a whale watching boat landed in our snug little cove; the well-dressed tourists got off and wandered around our campsite. I'll never forget having my polypro clothing and little tent being inspected by hordes of people. Maybe that's how the wildlife feel as we ogle them from our yaks. That experience convinced me that seakayaking was going to be an uphill battle. From: dianem_at_sd61.bc.ca > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:03:18 -0700 > To: dkruger_at_seasurf.com > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Dave's Spot: Angst about "Sharing" > Cc: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > (big snip of totally justified angst) > >We've know for a long time that the enemy is us, especially more of us. > >I just need some help sorting out how to handle all of this. What's a > >body to do? Hayduke's methods seem inappropriate here! > > > >Thanks for your help. > > First, who's Hayduke? > > Yes, the enemy is us and I can certainly dive into my own deep pool of > angst, even without the beer ;) if I follow that thought. I don't foresee > any fewer of us (though one never knows what plans Gaia, and the rest of > our species, have for us); in fact, plenty more of us. Years ago I was all > thrilled with ecotourism. But then I began to see what was happening to > places of incerdible beauty, when they were made more accessible. Long > Beach. I cried. Sombrio. I cried. Right in front of all the surfers. It > used to be hard to get to these places, but it was worth it. Now it's easy, > and not so worth it. > > I was shocked by the bureaucracy interfering in my wilderness experience > when a quota system was instituted five or six years ago, for hiking the > West Coast Trail here on the Island. But I support it now. Given the > numbers of us who want to be there at any given time, we have to agree to > some method of filtering us through. Once you're on the trail, you > pretty well have to finish at the other end, unless you can find a way to > get to the windsurfers' camp up the river in the middle, and go out there. > I think that's harder now than it used to be. (That's how I came in,last > time). It is easier to check permits on a point a to point b land trail > than on a water trail. However, we, the enemy, may have to agree to limit > our own access to some of the places we would like to be able to get to > whenever the spirit moves us, and get in line for a permit. Someone would > have to be out there checking permits, and arguing wih people who didn't > have one.... > > I'm surprised that I'm onside with needing a permit but our love is > killing the wild places. > > I want to to back to Vargas Island this summer. To years ago there was one > tour group farther down the beach. What will it be this year? The Vargas > Starbuck's? > And by just being there,I am part of the problem. > > Last year in Nootka Sound I met a couple from Oregon who were lamenting > what had happened to much of the waterfront there, and were urging us who > call BC home to do all we could to prevent that happening here. > > I trust WC2 nd the Georgia Strait Alliance and the Marine Trails > Association to act in the interest of the wild places and cretures, and to > encourage responsible paddling. I try to keep in mind what I learn from > others about leaving the wild ones space and not getting too close. About > low impact on the places I visit. > > Maybe I'll just paddle the harbour and watch the nesting habits of the > elusive seaplanes while dodging whale watching tour boats and tourist > sailboats and motorcraft! ;) > > Diane > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > ********************************************************************** Bradford R. Crain E-mail: brad_at_mth.pdx.edu Dept. of Mathematics Phone: (503) 725-3127 Portland State Univ. FAX: (503) 725-3661 P.O. Box 751 Portland, Or. 97207 ********************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Two, years ago while camped on the sands (south of Long Beach) my son and I witnessed several single engine Otter 'sea planes' loaded with tourists, fly over the Sea Lion rocks, circle and fly by again. This went on several times day in and day out. Pathetic were the sounds of a roaring aircraft engine breaking the stillness of the day. The Sea Lions have been tolerating this without choice for some time now. Yet Parks Canada say it is ok. Tourism means big bucks. Our presence on the Beach was unobtrusive, the daily presence to the aircraft was literally obtrusive and annoying. Now with respect to sensitivity toward ducks and other water foul while paddling and a sense of self guilt for being intrusive lets remember we have a right to be here! It is how we choose to move among the wildlife that makes the difference (In my opinion). We can paddle with stealth and care or with mindlessness. If some still feel guilty then be aware of the magnitude of pollution and poisoning of water foul that is going on in North America where there are some controls employed (none in Mexico). Myriad's of polluted tailing ponds full of chemical pollutants etc. from pulp & paper, mining and heavy oil extraction plants etc, etc. poison and polluted tens of thousands of migratory water foul each year. The chemical Industry (thanks to Mr. Rockerfeller holdings) does the most damage via the retail sale of pesticides and herbicides for which 'they' have convinced the farmers of our three nations to become dependant users of their poisons. Red Deer Alberta, has one of the highest cancer rates in the province of Alberta and I suspect it is due to the fact that the city's drinking water comes from the beautiful Red Deer River which is an elongated collecting basin for farm land run-off. Concentrated amounts of the so call friendly chemicals pouring into the estuaries and the main river are undoubtedly having an effect on water foul as much as humans are being impacted. So Knowing that the Red Deer river is but a small microcosm of the total North American scene (absolutely the frigging Mexicans are especially included)of what has been going on for nearly 90 years I am persuaded that a little eco tourism or paddling amongst migratory ducks is quite insignificant in terms of a considerate kayakers impact on the wildlife. Such problems are exacerabated in a much larger scale in China and the former Soviet Union. As for the West Coast trail of Vancouver Island, I have hiked it three consecutive times over these last few years. I am impressed by how resilient (not how fragile) Nature really is and how well the trail holds up. In my opinion, the hiking impact is minimal for such a large volume of hikers from around the globe. What does piss me off and what is the real scourge of environmental impact is all the dam garbage dumped at sea and washed up on the the shore and among the surge channels etc. Floating florescent tube lamps full of mercury smashing on the rocks. Black plastic garbage bags for sea lions be be curious about. All the shit loads of garbage dumped by fishermen, Canadian and US navy and the damn Japanese and Taiwanese gill net fishing fleets that remain at sea and continue to make their ship environments clean at the expense of the ocean. Logging is another issue I won't get into here. We all have a right to be here and to use and enjoy nature. What is wrong is how we go about doing life as a species! Many of us do life quite well with little if any effect of harm or wrong doing. But! There are many who do life wrong. Governments and corporations are accountable if made to be but accountability begins with the individual and it seems to me that kayakers have little cause for self guilt. At least as I see it. And who the hell is gai? Some greek god of Sanfrancisco cell movement or a secret lover of Bill Clinton? Cheers, Philip Wylie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > BIG SNIP< > Now, I've spent an afternoon a week for maybe 4-5 years, paddling ALL > OVER the habitat the Water Trail will traverse. Man, I know this > place. I know where the animals feel comfy and where they flee. Dave, sadly, as you must know, its not so much the people as the NUMBER of people! Turn a hundred of you loose in there and see what would be changed. I have places that I love to go in the dead of winter. No one else goes there that time of year, not even a hard nosed fisherman. I shared one of those places with two friends that I introduced to kayaking, this past weekend. They are the only people that "know" it as I have seen it.(spell that free of boats and the only noise is what you make and nature) We saw a couple of mule deer on the island we camped. I have NEVER seen any back in there before! We saw a brown pelican. I have NEVER saw a brown pelican(just white) in NM! Thats all we can do. Share with who we trust and hope that the magic will rub off. Preaching doesn't work too well. I know, as I'm one of the best examples alive! <G> Dave Forman said something to the fact that..there should be places that have no maps. If you wanted to enter you had to do so on natures terms. No rescues if you screwed up or anything like that. No whinning and filing sute if you were hurt in an accident or run over by a moose or mauled by a bear. Make a decision thats wrong and pay the price. REAL unspoiled wilderness! I agree with him. It may seem harsh but I believe it is best answer and maybe the only answer for those "magic" places that we ALL seem to want to save just for ourselves. I now have put on my shirt with the cross hairs. <G> I hope your place well! James And, > frankly, even without a Water Trail, there are damn few places where > waterfowl and seals can avoid human exposure. One of my favorite, most > unreachable ones will be right in the middle of the "freeway" this Water > Trail will generate, passing through waters the powerboat crowd can not > touch (too shallow). [This is "Dave's secret spot," per George's post.] > > So, here's my question to the assembled wisdom of the Paddlewise > throng: How should such a wildlife region be managed? All of this > water is "navigable," and can not legally be "fenced off" for the > protection of wildlife. Virtually all of the people who will use the > proposed Water Trail will be good, conscientious folks who would sooner > commit hari-kari than crush a baby duck. Yet, 80 per cent of them will, > in their ignorance, blithely paddle down sloughs, completely unaware > that their presence is scarifying the very animals they would protect > with their donations and letters, if sensitively publicized on TV. > Enough of them, as an aggregate, will "crush baby ducks" by making those > sloughs and backwaters untenable for nurturing small waterfowl, not to > speak of the effects of disturbance on over-wintering birds. > > We've know for a long time that the enemy is us, especially more of us. > I just need some help sorting out how to handle all of this. What's a > body to do? Hayduke's methods seem inappropriate here! > > Thanks for your help. > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
*The Nature Conservancy* http://www.tnc.org/ Its one way we all can make a difference. bye bye bliven *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:56 AM 4/22/98 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: > >We've know for a long time that the enemy is us, especially more of us. >I just need some help sorting out how to handle all of this. What's a >body to do? Hayduke's methods seem inappropriate here! > Dave, you hit the nail on the head. The enemy is too many of us. At our current rate of reproduction, there'll be no worry about other species because there'll be no room for anything other than humans. We can choose to pick away at the symptoms, or we can make headway against the real issue. My suggestion is to get to know and understand the Zero Population Growth organization and champion its cause. Work on protecting wildlife habitat also so there's something left when we finally slow our growth. Bill *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In case no one noticed, we hit zero reproductive growth in '94, with all population growth now accounted for by net immigration (<- Beware! Somewhat slippery statistics!). This has caused the Great Schism of '98 in the Sierra Club, with one faction favoring a resolution in favor of limiting immigration to restrict population and the other faction favoring a more open policy. Roger outdoors_at_biddeford.com wrote: > At 01:56 AM 4/22/98 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: > > > >We've know for a long time that the enemy is us, especially more of us. > >I just need some help sorting out how to handle all of this. What's a > >body to do? Hayduke's methods seem inappropriate here! > > > Dave, you hit the nail on the head. The enemy is too many of us. At our > current rate of reproduction, there'll be no worry about other species > because there'll be no room for anything other than humans. We can choose > to pick away at the symptoms, or we can make headway against the real issue. > My suggestion is to get to know and understand the Zero Population Growth > organization and champion its cause. Work on protecting wildlife habitat > also so there's something left when we finally slow our growth. > Bill > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Bill wrote; (SNIP) >Dave, you hit the nail on the head. The enemy is too many of us. At our >current rate of reproduction, there'll be no worry about other species >because there'll be no room for anything other than humans. We can choose >to pick away at the symptoms, or we can make headway against the real issue. >My suggestion is to get to know and understand the Zero Population Growth >organization and champion its cause. Work on protecting wildlife habitat >also so there's something left when we finally slow our growth. Check out this site http://www.vhemt.org/ A bit tongue in cheek but maybe not all that farfetched. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > Enough of them, as an aggregate, will "crush baby ducks" by making those > sloughs and backwaters untenable for nurturing small waterfowl, not to > speak of the effects of disturbance on over-wintering birds. > > We've know for a long time that the enemy is us, especially more of us. > I just need some help sorting out how to handle all of this. What's a > body to do? Hayduke's methods seem inappropriate here! Perhaps one solution is for all non motorized recreators to look for their vacations and recreation in places other than "the best spots on the face of the earth." We could probably spread out alot more and find more solitude in the process. Then we could all come home & get involved in politics to make more places free from destructive uses. One thing I'm convinced of: We need to increase the use in wild areas, not decrease use. Simply because wild areas need friends. If non motorized users don't love an area to death, you can bet that motorized users will -- and the death will be a lot more permanent. It's heartwarming to see the sensitivity of kayakers worried about disturbing seals and whales. But 2 stroke motor boats put more petrol into the environment every year than the Exxon Valdez. Kayak damage to whales is pretty trivial by comparison. Proposal for a new kayak ethic: One hour writing congress for every 10 hours on the water. Peace, Brian *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I don't think for a minute that Mr. Neverdosky was the least bit serious about actually harming another human being (if he was, he should seek professional help). As a group, I think kayakers are concerned about the effect humans have on the environment. It can get emotional real fast. Here's a suggestion. It may sound impossible, but I think it can be done. The fact that we are all communicating on this medium means that we are all "on line". What we need to do is share real information, not get lost in the emotion. We need to know what species are the most at risk and why. We need to know this about every wildlife habitat we visit, from the most accessible public boat ramps to the untouched frontiers. And we need to get this information out to the other people who visit these places. We need to get smart, not defensive. If the Nature Conservancy and the Sierra Club and the Audubon Society and the Marine Mammal Center and the other similar organizations out their all pooled their informational resources in a meaningful way we would have a better idea on the best approach to growing wilderness access, because making wildernesses off limits just isn't going to happen for the most part. I think this pooling of information can take place on the net through a kind of super web page. People would not be required to sort through tons of disjointed material. Instead it might be something a little bit like Map Quest. You would input the coordinates for your proposed wilderness visit and you would receive a report telling you what to look out for. Maybe such a web site could be sponsored by REI and the other major recreational equipment suppliers. The net is all about information, and information is what we need here. One guy says if a bird flies off its perch (or a seal slips off its rock) when you paddle by it's a gross environmental violation. Another guy says it's no big deal. It's just opinion unless you have facts. Keith Kaste Dave Kruger wrote: > We've know for a long time that the enemy is us, especially more of us. > I just need some help sorting out how to handle all of this. What's a > body to do? Hayduke's methods seem inappropriate here! > > Thanks for your help. > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Keith Kaste <kkaste_at_slip.net> <snip> > communicating on this medium means that we are all "on line". What we need to > do is share real information, not get lost in the emotion. We need to know > what species are the most at risk and why. We need to know this about every > wildlife habitat we visit, from the most accessible public boat ramps to the > untouched frontiers. And we need to get this information out to the other > people who visit these places. We need to get smart, not defensive. If the <snip> > limits just isn't going to happen for the most part. I think this pooling of > information can take place on the net through a kind of super web page. People > would not be required to sort through tons of disjointed material. Instead it > might be something a little bit like Map Quest. You would input the > coordinates for your proposed wilderness visit and you would receive a report > telling you what to look out for. Maybe such a web site could be sponsored by > REI and the other major recreational equipment suppliers. The net is all about > information, and information is what we need here. > > One guy says if a bird flies off its perch (or a seal slips off its rock) > when you paddle by it's a gross environmental violation. Another guy says it's > no big deal. It's just opinion unless you have facts. This is an excellent suggestion! I will even volunteer to set up a clickable world map on the PaddleWise website where paddlers that will be paddling to a particular area can click on that location and bring up info on the area. I *will* need help, though. I can find out some of the info, but the more of you that let me know what species are endangered in your area, nesting habits, environmentally sensitive issues for a particular area, etc., then the more info that can be included. For instance, I know that they ask folks to please not tread on the delicate sea oats and cordgrass on Horn Island (Gulf of Mexico) which aid in preserving the islands. Also, there are areas marked off which should not be entered due to the nesting ospreys. This is a GREAT idea, Keith, and one where anyone that wants to get can involved by simply providing the info. I *like* it! :-) Cheers, Jackie \ / | \ / \ | / __ ___ / __( ( )_ _( )___ \ | / _( ( ) __ _( )__ _( _( ) ______ ( ) ( ( )_ ( ( )__ __( ( ) _________ _( ______( ) _( ( ) (___ _ ___) ( ) / | (_______ ( _ _ ) | \ (_____ __ _(_ _ _ ) _ _ / \ / \O/ \ \ " / | _ _ \ / \O/ \ | " _,_ ,==(~ \ ) / _ .'/ __ _ ___ \\ { `~.. / \(Q)/ \ \\ \ `. |`| `\ `. `. ^ ^ ,sSSs,\, ``\ , \ )\w/( ,sSS..)/{) `|\|"\\\ <<..> sSSS_v)/ \ | \ "`" )<*> sSS[(\_]___\ | / <(_/_o_o_ 'sS[_`-+---+) |/ \----+-------+-------'---`-----\--------n----') ~~~~~~~ ~~jf ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~\~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ o \ o \\ o o \\ o o ` (\ o o >jf:-) o (/ o *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie Fenton wrote: > This is an excellent suggestion! I will even volunteer to set up a clickable > world map on the PaddleWise website where paddlers that will be paddling to > a particular area can click on that location and bring up info on the area. > I *will* need help, though. I can find out some of the info, but the more > of you that let me know what species are endangered in your area, nesting > habits, environmentally sensitive issues for a particular area, etc., then > the more info that can be included. > > For instance, I know that they ask folks to please not tread on the > delicate sea oats and cordgrass on Horn Island (Gulf of Mexico) which aid > in preserving the islands. Also, there are areas marked off which should > not be entered due to the nesting ospreys. > > This is a GREAT idea, Keith, and one where anyone that wants to get can > involved by simply providing the info. I *like* it! :-) > > Cheers, > > Jackie > wonderfull graphics snipped.... Plum Island, Mass. (USA) is a nesting site for the endangered Piping Plover. Many sites roped off during nesting season. I will check up and try to find more info on this and others. Mike -- The only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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