JCMARTIN43 wrote: > The vest is also bright yellow for good passive visibility, as > opposed to blue, purple or black on the Rio Grande model. (My son has the > black Rio Grande, and it's a tough looking outfit with his black helmet, but > he just bashes into rocks all day, so passive visibility is definitely in > second place to "cool".) > Actually, I recently got a Lotus Rio Grande and it's a nice bright yellow, "Aztec Yellow" I think they call it. Matt B. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:11 PM 5/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >Actually, I recently got a Lotus Rio Grande and it's a nice bright >yellow, "Aztec Yellow" I think they call it. > or, "Yum Yum Yellow" Bob Tellefson http://www.zooid.com/sbpaddle Bob Tellefson High Quality Turnkey Systems & Consulting RCT Design Multi-platform systems our specialty 805-683-9717 Unix, Windows NT, Windows 95, Internet, Intranet 805-683-0717 (fax) http://www.zooid.com email: bob_at_zooid.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Tellefson wrote: > > At 11:11 PM 5/14/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >Actually, I recently got a Lotus Rio Grande and it's a nice bright > >yellow, "Aztec Yellow" I think they call it. > > > > or, "Yum Yum Yellow" That is what he said. Remember that the Aztecs engaged in human sacrifice. :-) ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I try to wear my PFD at all times because it makes body recovery easier, which might be appreciated by the members of SAR and some of the friends and relatives. In general, your best piece of safety equipment is your brain...don't leave home without it. Brad Crain (still trying to learn how to use my brain) > Craig Jungers wrote about using our PFDs at all times > > > I agree with his perspective and the rest of my opinion is on the CASKA > blog he mentions. But the bottom line(s) can be repeated so the reader > doesn't have to wade through the whole blog. > > 1. Lifejackets float you face down if you're not conscious. So how is > that a safety thing for those of us who usually paddle alone? > > 2. When I swim for fun, body surfing and playing in whitewater as a > swimmer, I never use a lifejacket. No one at the beach ever wears a > lifejacket. If paddling conditions are benign, what does the lifejacket > do for me? > > 3. I have never been saved by my lifejacket. I don't know how many > days I've paddled a kayak in my life, but it is well over 6000, many of > those in serious whitewater. > > 4. I would never, ever, paddle without a sprayskirt. That is my best > piece of safety equipment. On days where I have forgot to throw mine in > the car, I find I can't get out of my habit of edging all my turns and > really regretting not having the skirt. > > 5. I know this is a bit heretical - I think the way to be safe is > practice your paddling skills like crazy. And wear your lifejacket when > your skills might not be up to the task. (Or when other paddlers are > looking, so you don't have to spend too much time explaining yourself.) > But the lifejacket doesn't make you a better paddler. > > jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day, I've got into the habit of wearing a PFD all the time having been caught out going for a paddle in a bay without one and then meeting up by chance with friends who were keen to paddle down the coast. Once, a long time ago, this got me into a fair bit of trouble when we encountered unexpected currents that delayed us until the afternoon winds and sea came up to about 20knots and 1.5m. Its also a part of our club culture, which focuses on kayaking at sea and whose insurance requires us to follow a given set of procedures related to weather and gear for formal club trips. Anyway the need to wear a PFD is buried deep in my psyche along with checking for my paddlefloat, paddle tether and closed hatches as the final things I check just before pushing off into the waves. I wonder what are the last things that others check before pushing off? Three years ago I learnt to ride a bicycle. It was uncanny how a new situation awakens that deep seated sense of caution. As I got on the bike I'd feel quite uncomfortable without the feel of a PFD on my back:~) All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter: If riding a bicycle while wearing a PFD takes you to your "happy place", then go for it. There's no law against it as far as I know. Personally, I'm in my "happy place" when wearing my bicycle helmet, which is a large BMX child's helmet and looks trey cool. I may try driving with the thing on. Who needs head trauma? Brad Crain Quoting PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>: > G'Day, > > Three years ago I learnt to ride a bicycle. It was uncanny how a new > situation awakens that deep seated sense of caution. As I got on the bike > I'd feel quite uncomfortable without the feel of a PFD on my back:~) > > All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
As Kruger says, Bradford keeps his tongue firmly planted in his cheek at all times. Don't turn his words against him. I can see two very valid points FOR wearing a PFD: 1. Gear Caddy. Without a PFD your VHF will stay with the boat; wheverever it goes. No good place to tie a knfie, compass, watch (don't think a watch is useful in a kayak? Hmmm.), etc. My drysuit has no pockets. 2. Empathy for the risks the others will be taking should you get into trouble. But for every point for there is a counterpoint. I doubt if anyone has really changed their minds here but it's certainly been interesting. I will continue, almost certainly, to carry - but probably not wear - a PFD when paddling in the summer here on my lake when paddling solo (which is almost always). I need no equipment (no one around here knows what a VHF is for anyway except maybe weather reports) and I'm close to shore almost always. But I do know when wearing one is smart. My regular paddling pal Pam has a rule about gearing up the same way every time so that she keeps to a routine. I laughed at her in her gear on Lake Washington with the weather in the 80s and the water in the 70s but still.... it's a valid point. Doug's point is, to me, one of the best. He feels ready when he's geared up. There is a lot of psychology in high risk sports and it can be important to feel ready. Really, for so many years we had either no knowledge of gear or no proper gear was available. I paddled in jeans, wool shirts and hiking boots. PFDs were uncomfortable, bulky, and of questionable merit. The only drysuits were for divers (and when I began paddling no drysuits at all). Now that we have so much technology in our favor (comfort, safety, etc.) I'd like to take advantage of at least some of it. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hey Craig, Hope you don't think I was calling out Brad with any comments I made recently. Brad is in a no touch zone as far as I can tell, though it would be interesting to actually try and have a serious conversation with him - like the meaning and purpose and origin of life. Then again, he'd probably roll out his dry wit and finish off with some absurdly abstract and humorous comment, which come to think about it, would pretty much sum up human existence. :-) As for PDF wearing, there are always counterpoints in any good debate, but most of us already know which side won the debate. I think it would be more fun to have the debate in open water though, rough seas, all interested parties from Paddlewise present. Those with a no-wear PFD disposition, of course, will not be wearing a PFD. Let's see how much volume one can get with a mouthful of cold water. Okay, that's adolescent, sorry. Hey, you started this Craig... As for clarity, I think Pam's previous post was about as good as it gets. Definitely mature and more balanced from a moderate risk exposure perspective from what I read and have seen her post in prior threads. High-risk and low-risk paddlers represent less of a good sampling for comment comparison. DL Craig said: As Kruger says, Bradford keeps his tongue firmly planted in his cheek at all times. Don't turn his words against him. I can see two very valid points FOR wearing a PFD: 1. Gear Caddy. Without a PFD your VHF will stay with the boat; wheverever it goes. No good place to tie a knfie, compass, watch (don't think a watch is useful in a kayak? Hmmm.), etc. My drysuit has no pockets. 2. Empathy for the risks the others will be taking should you get into trouble. But for every point for there is a counterpoint. I doubt if anyone has really changed their minds here but it's certainly been interesting. I will continue, almost certainly, to carry - but probably not wear - a PFD when paddling in the summer here on my lake when paddling solo (which is almost always). I need no equipment (no one around here knows what a VHF is for anyway except maybe weather reports) and I'm close to shore almost always. But I do know when wearing one is smart. My regular paddling pal Pam has a rule about gearing up the same way every time so that she keeps to a routine. I laughed at her in her gear on Lake Washington with the weather in the 80s and the water in the 70s but still.... it's a valid point. Doug's point is, to me, one of the best. He feels ready when he's geared up. There is a lot of psychology in high risk sports and it can be important to feel ready. Really, for so many years we had either no knowledge of gear or no proper gear was available. I paddled in jeans, wool shirts and hiking boots. PFDs were uncomfortable, bulky, and of questionable merit. The only drysuits were for divers (and when I began paddling no drysuits at all). Now that we have so much technology in our favor (comfort, safety, etc.) I'd like to take advantage of at least some of it. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Brad wrote: >If riding a bicycle while wearing a PFD takes you to your >"happy place", then go for it............... >Personally, I'm in my "happy place" when wearing my >bicycle helmet, G'Day Brad, I might wait for April 1st and a suitable occasion, despite my almost uncontrollable urge to put on a PFD when getting on the bike. OTOH I've sometimes worn a surfing helmet while cycling when a bike helmet wasn't to hand. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I never paddle without one, even under the most benign conditions, e.g., 10 inches of flatwater on a midsummer afternoon. Nor do I permit anyone I paddle with to leave theirs off, whether I'm doing so for fun or in a professional capacity. I won't rehash the arguments we've already been through but will try to add one that I haven't spotted to this point: my PFD isn't just for me. It's also for the person I'm going to rescue, because (under many circumstances) I won't be able to rescue them without it. Especially if they chose not to wear one. ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rich Kulawiec wrote: I won't rehash the arguments we've already been through but will try to add one that I haven't spotted to this point: my PFD isn't just for me. It's also for the person I'm going to rescue, because (under many circumstances) I won't be able to rescue them without it. Especially if they chose not to wear one. ========= Taking this line of reasoning one step further - wearing a life jacket (LJ) could also be of benefit to the paddling community at large. Were someone to die who was not wearing a LJ, family members could lobby legislators to come up with some poorly written legislation about mandatory LJ use. The pending (already passed?) MA legislation about kayaking instructors needing to be certified is one example. In Illinois, a kayaker who was reported to have cocaine and marijuana in his system went over a notorious killer dam several years ago, reportedly shortly after finishing a telephone conversation. He drowned - as did two brothers who tried to save him. The deceased kayaker's ex-wife mounted an effective lobbying campaign that resulted in passage of a law that required the IL DNR to come up with safety rules that would have prevented use of established dam portages on the very few miles of 'public waters' available to Illinois paddlers. While this administrative rule appears to have been derailed, even one legislator promising a little girl that no one else will die at a dam (or without a LJ, or <fill in the blank>) can have unpleasant and unintended consequences. Stuff happens, and grieving family members may not appreciate or know about the risk analysis done by the paddler prior to finding himself in the wrong place at the wrong time....... Erik (who also sometimes paddles without wearing a LJ) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 09:28:17AM -0800, Erik S wrote: > Taking this line of reasoning one step further - wearing a life jacket > (LJ) could also be of benefit to the paddling community at large. > Were someone to die who was not wearing a LJ, family members could > lobby legislators to come up with some poorly written legislation about > mandatory LJ use. I've said this same thing for many years. Legislative and regulatory initiatves are often driven by the need to be seen "doing something", even if that something is pointless, expensive or even counter-productive. (The TSA provides examples of this on a near-daily basis, sometimes by what it does, also by simply continuing to exist.) Quite often, in fact, *most* often, such initiatives are driven by single, highly emotionally-charged events and do not include the kind of sober risk analysis that's necessary to evaluate risk/reward tradeoffs. Throw in a helping of "we must do it for the childrennnnnnn" (which is now recognized by everyone working in the Internet arena as a red flag for bad legislation) and salt to taste with media coverage of grieving survivors, and add a pinch of fear fear fear FEAR! and it's the perfect recipe for a disaster. ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com> >If you knew the odds of drowning while kayaking during each year were one in >5000 would you paddle? >If you live in an urban area that is about the average risk of dying in an >auto accident (each year) if you drive a car. Are these quotable and verifiable statistics Matt? If they are, I've a use for them. Thanks! ~~daniel~ __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:32:49 PDT