> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 10:50:33 -0400 > From: Bill Leonhardt <leonhardt_at_bnldag.ags.bnl.gov> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddlefloats and re-entries > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > At 09:17 AM 5/5/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Jack_Martin_at_jtif.webfld.navy.mil wrote: > >> > ><SNIPPED> > >> Second, how many of us routinely leak-check inflatable paddlefloats? > >> Blow them up to a firm point, wash them down in a soapy water > >> solution, and look for bubbles or loss of pressure in a few minutes? > >> With normal wear and tear, these things will develop small leaks which > >> become bigger leaks. Yes, most are dual-chambered, but will one > >> chamber "float your boat", and are both chambers sound? Just a > >> thought. My checks have frequently resulted in finding air leaks --- > >> try yours! > > > >I don't understand why people in hardshells don't use a rigid paddle > >float rather than the inflatable kind. The inflatable kind makes sense > >for someone in a folding kayak in which the rigid type of paddle float > >takes up roam in the kayak carrying bags. But if you have a boat that > >can't fold, why have a folding paddle float? > > > >They have several advantages. 1) No air leaks. And, 2) no wasted > >breath in blowing them up in scary conditions. It is amazing how being > >scared makes you a bit short of breath especially as water is gushing up > >close to your mouth and nose and you feel the shock of cold water > >against your lungs. > > > >I have often thought of getting one for any boat I am leaving assembled > >for long periods. They make good seats too on rocky beaches. > > > >ralph diaz > >-- > > > Dear Ralph, et.al., > > I have been thinking along similar lines. I thought that the foam block > would be best when paddling in colder water since (theoretically) you could > save the time in the water it takes for inflation. Perhaps saving the > inflatible float for days you wouldn't mind a longer swim. > > One of the things that has kept me away from the foam block though was > cost. $40 seems like a lot of money for a piece of foam with a cover. I'm > sure there will be folks who say that $40 isn't too much to save your life, > however I feel that when safety gear is more affordable, more of it will be > acquired and brought along. > > Perhaps I'm being a wee bit too fiscally conservative. What do others > think? I'd like to think I'm open to change. > > Bill Leonhardt > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > I had exactly the same reaction last summer. The foam block paddle float is a great idea...doesn't require inflating, can't leak...but I was too cheap to shell out 40 bucks for a piece of foam. Brad Crain ********************************************************************** Bradford R. Crain E-mail: brad_at_mth.pdx.edu Dept. of Mathematics Phone: (503) 725-3127 Portland State Univ. FAX: (503) 725-3661 P.O. Box 751 Portland, Or. 97207 ********************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:11 AM 5/5/98 +0000, Brad Crain wrote: >> I had exactly the same reaction last summer. The foam block paddle >float is a great idea...doesn't require inflating, can't leak...but I >was too cheap to shell out 40 bucks for a piece of foam. > I'm way too Scotch (Mama's a Burns) to not make something this easy myself. Closed cell foam, webbing, velcro, canvas or nylon...I made what is basically a pillowcase for the foam (closed cell packing foam from Apple 8500 printers glued into a usable block size), put the foam in, folded it, stitched sides together, attached a wraparound 2" seatbelt webbing strap with velcro to secure it. I had all the stuff, so it was basically free, but probably cost about $2-3 US. I've used it enough to be confident in it. I've got two sturdy kid "swimmies" stowed under my seat for emergency inflatable paddle (maybe even me) floats too. $3 or so, Walmart, Kmart, etc.; cheaper at the end of everyone else's swimming season. Yes, I'm very cheap. No, I don't take untested stuff out to sea. Wynne Americus, GA USA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:17 AM 5/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Jack_Martin_at_jtif.webfld.navy.mil wrote: >> ><SNIPPED> >> Second, how many of us routinely leak-check inflatable paddlefloats? >> Blow them up to a firm point, wash them down in a soapy water >> solution, and look for bubbles or loss of pressure in a few minutes? >> With normal wear and tear, these things will develop small leaks which >> become bigger leaks. Yes, most are dual-chambered, but will one >> chamber "float your boat", and are both chambers sound? Just a >> thought. My checks have frequently resulted in finding air leaks --- >> try yours! > >I don't understand why people in hardshells don't use a rigid paddle >float rather than the inflatable kind. The inflatable kind makes sense >for someone in a folding kayak in which the rigid type of paddle float >takes up roam in the kayak carrying bags. But if you have a boat that >can't fold, why have a folding paddle float? > >They have several advantages. 1) No air leaks. And, 2) no wasted >breath in blowing them up in scary conditions. It is amazing how being >scared makes you a bit short of breath especially as water is gushing up >close to your mouth and nose and you feel the shock of cold water >against your lungs. > >I have often thought of getting one for any boat I am leaving assembled >for long periods. They make good seats too on rocky beaches. > >ralph diaz >-- Dear Ralph, et.al., I have been thinking along similar lines. I thought that the foam block would be best when paddling in colder water since (theoretically) you could save the time in the water it takes for inflation. Perhaps saving the inflatible float for days you wouldn't mind a longer swim. One of the things that has kept me away from the foam block though was cost. $40 seems like a lot of money for a piece of foam with a cover. I'm sure there will be folks who say that $40 isn't too much to save your life, however I feel that when safety gear is more affordable, more of it will be acquired and brought along. Perhaps I'm being a wee bit too fiscally conservative. What do others think? I'd like to think I'm open to change. Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Bill Leonhardt wrote: > >I don't understand why people in hardshells don't use a rigid paddle > >float rather than the inflatable kind. The inflatable kind makes sense > >for someone in a folding kayak in which the rigid type of paddle float > >takes up roam in the kayak carrying bags. But if you have a boat that > >can't fold, why have a folding paddle float? > > > >They have several advantages. 1) No air leaks. And, 2) no wasted > >breath in blowing them up in scary conditions. It is amazing how being > >scared makes you a bit short of breath especially as water is gushing up > >close to your mouth and nose and you feel the shock of cold water > >against your lungs. > > > >I have often thought of getting one for any boat I am leaving assembled > >for long periods. They make good seats too on rocky beaches. > > > >ralph diaz > >-- > > Dear Ralph, et.al., > > I have been thinking along similar lines. I thought that the foam block > would be best when paddling in colder water since (theoretically) you could > save the time in the water it takes for inflation. Perhaps saving the > inflatible float for days you wouldn't mind a longer swim. > > One of the things that has kept me away from the foam block though was > cost. $40 seems like a lot of money for a piece of foam with a cover. I'm > sure there will be folks who say that $40 isn't too much to save your life, > however I feel that when safety gear is more affordable, more of it will be > acquired and brought along. > > Perhaps I'm being a wee bit too fiscally conservative. What do others > think? I'd like to think I'm open to change. The last I looked, inflatable paddle floats were costing around $25-30. So $40 is not out of line. You could also manufacture your own out of foam blocks and duct tape but I think your costs for good blocks of sufficient size would run around $15-20. So the $40 still looks pretty decent for something nicely set up for you and, I assume, tested. It it doesn't work in a practice run, then return it. ralph > > Bill Leonhardt > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-05-05 11:18:21 EDT, leonhardt_at_bnldag.ags.bnl.gov writes: << One of the things that has kept me away from the foam block [paddlefloat], though, was cost. $40 seems like a lot of money for a piece of foam with a cover. I'm sure there will be folks who say that $40 isn't too much to save your life, however I feel that when safety gear is more affordable, more of it will be acquired and brought along. >> Sounds like you've been looking at the foam with the unobtainium core, Bill. It shouldn't cost that much. The generic kind starts with an envelope style (flat) nylon mesh "laundry bag", about 12" by 18", with a piece of 2" foam shoved inside it, and a paddle-blade-sized slice into the end --- through the open end of the mesh bag --- cut with a bread knife. The whole paddle blade is shoved into the slice, and the mesh bag cord can be wrapped around the paddle shaft and hooked to itself for security. But friction works pretty well. Basic stuff, and with a $3 mesh bag and $5 to 10 for the foam, the whole thing shouldn't cost much. Jack "Joq" Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-05-05 09:23:39 EDT, you write: << I don't understand why people in hardshells don't use a rigid paddle float rather than the inflatable kind. The inflatable kind makes sense for someone in a folding kayak in which the rigid type of paddle float takes up roam in the kayak carrying bags. But if you have a boat that can't fold, why have a folding paddle float? They have several advantages. 1) No air leaks. And, 2) no wasted breath in blowing them up in scary conditions. It is amazing how being scared makes you a bit short of breath especially as water is gushing up close to your mouth and nose and you feel the shock of cold water against your lungs. I have often thought of getting one for any boat I am leaving assembled for long periods. They make good seats too on rocky beaches. ralph diaz -- >> The one reason many prefer the inflatable paddle float bag over the rigid minicell is that it provides much more buoyancy. I have had some people in my rescue class with the minicell float and half of the time as they are climbing on the the kayak the float sinks before they get in. This would depend on your weight. Before you spend the money on one, borrow someone elses and try it out to see if it works for you. As for leaks, most inflatables have two chambers. If one fails the other will provide probably the same amount of support as a minicell block. And we all know a lot of people who are full of hot air to readily blow that thing up. ; -) You can also use it as a pillow at night to get your beauty rest. Ray Killen Katabasis L.L.C. I'd rather be upside down in my kayak than sitting upright at my desk! http://members.aol.com/kayakillen/katabasis *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
That issue with the lack of buoyancy in current solid paddlefloats was addressed in the last design I made for a paddle float. The other enhancements were lots of rigging and the possibility of using it as a rescue ring to keep a person afloat while towing. The problem is that the 3.8 gall paddlefloat was pretty bulky, which for some paddlers is not apealing. But the inflatable floats that the Greenlanders use are even bigger. The latest version of my design is made out of the original two pieces of foam, but thinner, with an inflatable chamber attached to each block of foam. Deflated the volume is about 2 gallons, with the chambers inflated the volume goes up another 1.5 gallons. Designing paddlefloats and addressing many uses and rescue scenarios has been a lot of fun, but the guys who wanted to put the designs in production and sell them are not very serious about it. The result is just a bunch of prototypes piled up in a corner gathering dust. If anyone wants to commercialize my designs I would send the drawings (rough sketches) and then they would be yours. What I did was to cover the foam floats with waterproofed nylon. Then I glued a commercialy available paddlefloat to each block with aquaseal. That worked very well for a prototype. The rigging is too complicated to explain in words, and putting it depends on how interested you are in rescuing others. Do not forget to put two or three grab loops so that it is easy to make a paddlefloat roll. Inventing useless things is a lot of fun. Why useless? Because like any safety device no onewants to use them. It is always better to stay upright. :-) - Julio > > In a message dated 98-05-05 09:23:39 EDT, you write: > > << I don't understand why people in hardshells don't use a rigid paddle > float rather than the inflatable kind. The inflatable kind makes sense > for someone in a folding kayak in which the rigid type of paddle float > takes up roam in the kayak carrying bags. But if you have a boat that > can't fold, why have a folding paddle float? > > They have several advantages. 1) No air leaks. And, 2) no wasted > breath in blowing them up in scary conditions. It is amazing how being > scared makes you a bit short of breath especially as water is gushing up > close to your mouth and nose and you feel the shock of cold water > against your lungs. > > I have often thought of getting one for any boat I am leaving assembled > for long periods. They make good seats too on rocky beaches. > > ralph diaz > -- >> > > The one reason many prefer the inflatable paddle float bag over the rigid > minicell is that it provides much more buoyancy. I have had some people in my > rescue class with the minicell float and half of the time as they are climbing > on the the kayak the float sinks before they get in. This would depend on your > weight. Before you spend the money on one, borrow someone elses and try it out > to see if it works for you. > > As for leaks, most inflatables have two chambers. If one fails the other will > provide probably the same amount of support as a minicell block. And we all > know a lot of people who are full of hot air to readily blow that thing up. ; > -) > > You can also use it as a pillow at night to get your beauty rest. > > Ray Killen > Katabasis L.L.C. > I'd rather be upside down in my kayak than sitting upright at my desk! > > http://members.aol.com/kayakillen/katabasis > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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