RE: [Paddlewise] Incapacitated partner

Whoops! I do this all the time - I sent this response to Clyde and not
the list! 
  I agree with all your points Clyde, when I used to lead "organized"
trips under the aegis of the National Audubon Society I was definitely
"liable" if I didn't have this info in writing.  Most of the leading
that I do nowadays is in a (much)less formal structure.  The Association
sign-up precluded (as I recall) any liability of the Association or its
members (have no idea how this would have stood up in court).  Paddling
in "pick-up" groups in class II-III whitewater was very informal, but
paddlers did tend to ask more ability/capability questions than I
usually encounter from sea-kayakers. I haven't joined a paddling club
since moving up here last September so any group paddling that I've been
doing has been very informal.
 Forcing the discussion one on one isn't usually a problem for me(I like
to talk<g>) - the real issue is making sure that the _group_ knows about
an issue revealed privately (this is in an environment without a
designated group leader).  As I re-read your reply again I just saw what
might be a key phrase - "...have a medical situation we should be aware
of?' "  the key being the _we_ as opposed to making it more personal by
saying "I". 

Dave Seng
Juneau, Alaska
 
	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Sisler, Clyde [SMTP:Clyde.Sisler_at_wang.com]
	Sent:	Monday, June 15, 1998 11:54 AM
	To:	David Seng
	Subject:	RE: [Paddlewise] Incapacitated partner

	> bee-sting allergies, etc?".  I feel that possibly offending
someone is
	> much better than losing them.  Maybe this is harsh, but then
again -
	> so
	> is dying.  I think that posing the question to the group
rather than
	> to
	> an individual lessens the possibility of "offense".
	> 
		IMO, you'd be remiss (and possibly liable?) as the
leader of an
	organized trip if you didn't make an effort to find out.   The
thing is
	many 'healthy' people might not stop to think someone else might
have a
	problem.  I'd think this would be more likely to happen in
smaller, less
	organized groups than in larger, more formal outings where group
	leadership responsibilites have been (hopefully) taught/learned.

	>   As a group "participant" I think it is in my best interest
to make
	> sure that any medical conditions are known to the group - ie.
I have
	> the
	> 
		I think so too.  However, some people may be reluctant
to
	volunteer that type of information for fear (rightly or wrongly)
of
	being rejected from the trip or activity. 

	> Jack.  A group of paddling buddies who all know each other and
paddle
	> together informally and a new paddler joining in for the first
time.
	> It's very difficult to approach this without putting the
person "on
	> the
	> spot".  Don't have a good solution, and for me this situation
is
	> probably the most common scenario.
	> 
		IMO, probably the best approach is not to make an overly
	dramatic issue of it.  Deliberately force a one on one, start
talking
	about rescue and safety and then add an 'Oh, by the way, are
you taking
	any medication or have a medical situation we should be aware
of?'  I
	would think the key would be one on one to minimize whatever
	embarassment there might be.
	>  

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