Last week we had our sea symposium in Jersey Channel Isles. A group of 22 paddlers did a 12 nautical mile crossing to Sark which was just great. Despite the 37 foot tide and 3.5 knot streams it surprised me just how many did not have really decent compas units on the boats. Still I guess they do not usually padle these conditions like we do over here. Anyway, A pal of mine who also paddles was up in his plane looking for us on the return trip to get some pics. He also is a kayaker and knew the route we we would be taking back. Yet from the air in spite of all this knowledge and info he said it was really hard to spot us despite the large group and knowledge he had. It certainly makes one think about the advantages of using dye markers in the water if you know an air search has been started for you in order to be spotted. It also makes you think about just how visible we are from the bridge of large ships-that is assuming they are not all relying on the radar and other electronic aids to 'see' by. On a different note we split the group in two after half an hour consisting of the fast paddlers and slower ones. This worked wel as it ment people had already began to split into a rough difference in paddling speeds. Not perfect, but better than being a big group with all the stress of group control and a stiff neck. In the past i have sorted out the group on land but this was a much better way so long as you made it clear that we would be doing this after 30 minutes and people were expected to stop. It worked well as we were on the same heading and there was only about 15 minutes between us in the end. What made life a lot easier was that we had radio communication betwen both groups. Very handy when one group came across a few puffins en route! Having a radio link on an intership channel was just great within the group. It alowed the front and back leaders in each group to tell each other what was going on and more importantly to tell the front paddler to slow down instead of having to try and catch up and then shout loudly. Sometimes technology is very good. It does however remove the excuse upon landing that you need to sink a load of beer to stop your throat hurting so much. Maintaining group control was hardest once we hit the restaurant.....but thats another story. cheers Derek. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Derek Hairon wrote: > Despite the 37 foot tide and 3.5 knot streams it surprised me just how many > did not have really decent compas units on the boats. Still I guess they do > not usually padle these conditions like we do over here. Derek, Writing from the context of that trip what were your observations and criticisms about the compasses employed by the others? And what would constitute a 'decent compass'? For the readership at large what compasses would they rate as the best if they could be catagorized to be among the top three? Cheers, Philip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> For the readership at large what compasses would they rate > as the best if they could be catagorized to be among the top > three? I love my Ritchie deck mounted variety... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I don't have a favorite compass, but I do have a least favorite. Those damn orienteering compasses (Silva et al) are worse than useless on a boat. Maybe there is some special trick that they do well when orienteering, but even on land I don't like them. I much prefer a direct reading compass, like any you find for marine use or military issue. If anyone can not read a compass, it is probably because they were trying to use an orienteering style compass. While they are not difficult to read, they do require effort. You often need to turn a bezel to get a reading, not easy when you are paddling. Where when you look at a direct reading compass, the letter or number under the line is your course. Look Ma no hands! If you hold the compass between you and a landmark, the course showing is the heading. Some orienteering compasses try to accomplish this with mirrors, but usually you need to look down on the compass to get a reading and it is hard to keep it pointed at something your not looking at. In case you can't tell these compasses are a pet peave of mine. The only good reason I can see for them, is they are probably really inexpensive to manufacture. For that reason they are cheap to buy and serve as a good addition to emergency kit. They will at least help to keep you from paddling in circles. BTW, I have an "Aquameter", I'm not sure who makes it, but it works well for me. Nick At 10:10 PM -0600 6/4/98, Philip Wylie wrote: >For the readership at large what compasses would they rate >as the best if they could be catagorized to be among the top >three? > >Cheers, > >Philip > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks c/o Newfound Woodworks, RFD 2 Box 850, Bristol, NH 03222 (603) 744-6872 Schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ >>>>"It's not just Art, It's a Craft!"<<<< *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Nick Schade wrote: > > I don't have a favorite compass, but I do have a least favorite. Those damn > orienteering compasses (Silva et al) are worse than useless on a boat. > Maybe there is some special trick that they do well when orienteering, but > even on land I don't like them. [snip] > > BTW, I have an "Aquameter", I'm not sure who makes it, but it works well > for me. > > At 10:10 PM -0600 6/4/98, Philip Wylie wrote: > > >For the readership at large what compasses would they rate > >as the best if they could be catagorized to be among the top three? I also like the Aquameter II. At about $50 US, it ain't cheap! But, it is easy to read, with large white numerals against a black background. There is a Ritchie model which is comparable in size and features to the A II, but it uses somewhat smaller white numerals against a blue background, which I find tougher to read. It is also a few dollars more than the A II. Another desirable feature of the A II is that it comes with a base that is firmly attached to the yak to which the compass "snaps" firmly. This allows the A II to be removed for safekeeping, or to be moved to another boat (likewise equipped with a snap-on base), saving the cost of another A II. (I can only paddle one boat at a time.) I used an orienteering compass for mountaineering for 20 years, and it worked well enough there. For maintaining a course on water, however, that style is definitely inferior. FWIW, there are "sighting" compasses made in the direct-reading style, and designed to be held at arm's length, which serve the orienteering compass' function (taking a bearing) better than the standard Silva orienteering compass. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I use a Ritchie deck mounted compass, but also carry a silva 'orienteering' style compass. The main design feature of these compasses is that they have a ruler and protractor built into the base plate (That is why they have a rotating bezel, *not* for taking sights of distant objects). While I agree that a deck mounted compass is the best tool for taking bearings from a kayak and holding a course, the silva compass/protractor is extremely useful in a kayak for taking bearings and distances from a chart/map, and is always there for use as a spare compass. For those of you who don't carry a silva style compass, how do you take bearings from your chart ??? Compass trivia: ever tried to use a silva style compass manufactured for use in the Northern hemisphere in the southern hemisphere, or vice versa? Lines of magnetic force do not run parrallel over the whole surface of the earth, at the poles for example, the magnetic force is *down*. The needle of a compass is balanced to sit horizontally in which ever magnetic zone it was designed to be primarily used in, and for a Northern hemisphere compass the balance is on the wrong end of the needle in the southern hemisphere, where it sits irritatingly against the base plate. Cheers Colin Calder 57º19'N 2º10'W *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Colin Calder wrote: > > I use a Ritchie deck mounted compass, but also carry a silva 'orienteering' > style compass. [snip] While I agree > that a deck mounted compass is the best tool for taking bearings from a > kayak and holding a course, the silva compass/protractor is extremely useful > in a kayak for taking bearings and distances from a chart/map, and is always > there for use as a spare compass. > > For those of you who don't carry a silva style compass, how do you take > bearings from your chart ??? Good point, Colin. I use a special protractor made by Weems and Plath. When its long dimension is aligned with the desired course, it gives the course bearing as a direct reading off lines pre-drawn on the chart to be parallel to the direction of magnetic north. This device is 11 inches along its longest dimension and gives more accurate bearings than the much smaller Silva style compass. It is cumbersome enough that I mainly use it in camp before paddling. The Silva would be more convenient on the deck of the yak. > Compass trivia: ever tried to use a silva style compass manufactured for use > in the Northern hemisphere in the southern hemisphere, or vice versa? Lines > of magnetic force do not run parrallel over the whole surface of the earth, > at the poles for example, the magnetic force is *down*. The needle of a > compass is balanced to sit horizontally in which ever magnetic zone it was > designed to be primarily used in, and for a Northern hemisphere compass the > balance is on the wrong end of the needle in the southern hemisphere, where > it sits irritatingly against the base plate. The dip of the magnetic lines of force at my latitude (46 degrees N) is substantial -- maybe 20 degrees -- that's a lot of counterbalancing! Won't traditional deck-mounted compasses of the direct-reading style (like the Ritchie or the Aquameter) have the same problem when used in the "incorrect" hemisphere? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The Small-Craft Nav-Aid is the most efficient and easy to use system I've found for taking bearings from a chart while on the water. Much easier than a hand-held compass. Bill Howard On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 10:35:25 +0100 Colin Calder <c.j.calder_at_abdn.ac.uk> wrote: > > > I use a Ritchie deck mounted compass, but also carry a silva 'orienteering' > style compass. The main design feature of these compasses is that they have > a ruler and protractor built into the base plate (That is why they have a > rotating bezel, *not* for taking sights of distant objects). While I agree > that a deck mounted compass is the best tool for taking bearings from a > kayak and holding a course, the silva compass/protractor is extremely useful > in a kayak for taking bearings and distances from a chart/map, and is always > there for use as a spare compass. > > For those of you who don't carry a silva style compass, how do you take > bearings from your chart ??? > > Compass trivia: ever tried to use a silva style compass manufactured for use > in the Northern hemisphere in the southern hemisphere, or vice versa? Lines > of magnetic force do not run parrallel over the whole surface of the earth, > at the poles for example, the magnetic force is *down*. The needle of a > compass is balanced to sit horizontally in which ever magnetic zone it was > designed to be primarily used in, and for a Northern hemisphere compass the > balance is on the wrong end of the needle in the southern hemisphere, where > it sits irritatingly against the base plate. > > Cheers > > Colin Calder > 57º19'N 2º10'W > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** ---------------------- bill howard howard_at_bc.edu Boston College *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> For those of you who don't carry a silva style compass, how do you take > bearings from your chart ??? That is actually my favorite use for the GPS. Its much better at taking bearings off of a marked chart than I am. On the water, I don't think I'd be any good at using a silva style compass to get accurate bearings, probably wouldn't do any better than I can just by eyeballing it. If you plan to depend on being able to take bearings on the water with one, I'd be sure to give it a try in an uncritical environment. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> The dip of the magnetic lines of force at my latitude (46 degrees N) > is > substantial -- maybe 20 degrees -- that's a lot of counterbalancing! > Won't traditional deck-mounted compasses of the direct-reading style > (like the Ritchie or the Aquameter) have the same problem when used in > the "incorrect" hemisphere? > I think I have a Aquameter but know I don't have the docs. Would you be able to take these types of compasses to a marine compass guy to have them re-calibrated or whatever when going across the equator and stuff? I know they can do that with sailing compasses. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
For a datapoint, the Nexus (was Silva) 70P is a really decent compass, too. The factory-built recess in the Valley Canoe Products "Pintail" --- as well as in other VCP boats --- is designed for the 70P, and it sits down below the deck level. There is some sort of light available for it, as well. It's been sitting in the deck of my boat for five years and, although the numbering has faded a little and the glass has darkened a tiny bit --- couldn't be <me>! --- it's still in good shape, no leaks, and totally satisfactory. Catalog list is around $90 --- paid about $45 five years back. For on-chart navigation, I strongly support the Small Craft Nav-Aid, too. Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > For those of you who don't carry a silva style compass, how do you take > > bearings from your chart ??? I just use my deck elastics like a parallel rule or edge of my hand to get the idea of the bearing. Usually I have a compass rose on my chart and just relate it all to that. With practice it has come to work quite well. Other people I have met have used a bit of thin string which they lay over the chart. If I am trying to work out my position on the sea then I tend to find that by getting a few bearings off different marks I can get a good idea of where I am. Then again I also tend to keep an ongoing eye on where I am throughout a trip and keep a sharp lokout for any handy transits. Derek. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I have Chuck Sutherland's Nav-Aid, which consists of a instruction booklet that gives an introduction to navigation, and plastic plate with a compass rose and a string attached to its center. You mark the distance of nautical miles on the string, and draw a line on the compass rose with your location's variation. Taking and transfering bearings on the map and measuring distances is extremely fast an easy, which prevents sea sickness. Chuck sells his Nav-Aid for $5, shipping included. I felt guilty paying such a low price for something so useful. - Julio P.S. Do not confuse Nav-Aid with another product called Nav-Board, which is a useless rip off that retails at $23. > > > > > > For those of you who don't carry a silva style compass, how do you take > > > bearings from your chart ??? > I just use my deck elastics like a parallel rule or edge of my hand to get > the idea of the bearing. Usually I have a compass rose on my chart and just > relate it all to that. With practice it has come to work quite well. Other > people I have met have used a bit of thin string which they lay over the > chart. If I am trying to work out my position on the sea then I tend to > find that by getting a few bearings off different marks I can get a good > idea of where I am. Then again I also tend to keep an ongoing eye on where > I am throughout a trip and keep a sharp lokout for any handy transits. > Derek. > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck Sutherland's address is Chuck Sutherland 2210 Finland Road Green Lane, PA 18054 - Julio > > > Julio, > Feel like sharing Chucks address? > Thanks ! > Ed > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Julio > MacWilliams > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 8:05 PM > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Really Decent Compass Units? -> Nav-Aid > > > I have Chuck Sutherland's Nav-Aid, which consists of a instruction booklet > that gives an introduction to navigation, and plastic plate with a compass > rose > and a string attached to its center. > > You mark the distance of nautical miles > on the string, and draw a line on the compass rose with your location's > variation. > > Taking and transfering bearings on the map and measuring > distances is extremely fast an easy, which prevents sea sickness. > > Chuck sells his Nav-Aid for $5, shipping included. I felt guilty paying > such a low price for something so useful. > > - Julio > > P.S. Do not confuse Nav-Aid with another product called Nav-Board, which > is a useless rip off that retails at $23. > > > > > > > > > > > For those of you who don't carry a silva style compass, how do you > take > > > > bearings from your chart ??? > > I just use my deck elastics like a parallel rule or edge of my hand to get > > the idea of the bearing. Usually I have a compass rose on my chart and > just > > relate it all to that. With practice it has come to work quite well. Other > > people I have met have used a bit of thin string which they lay over the > > chart. If I am trying to work out my position on the sea then I tend to > > find that by getting a few bearings off different marks I can get a good > > idea of where I am. Then again I also tend to keep an ongoing eye on where > > I am throughout a trip and keep a sharp lokout for any handy transits. > > Derek. > > > *************************************************************************** > > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > > > *************************************************************************** > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-06-04 19:51:00 EDT, hairond_at_super.net.uk writes: << On a different note we split the group in two after half an hour consisting of the fast paddlers and slower ones. This worked wel as it ment people had already began to split into a rough difference in paddling speeds. >> I suggested doing this with a large group I was leading some years ago. I receieved objections from a senor paddler and kayak safety expert that the fast gruop was also the most expeienced and skilled gruop. The mix of skills would be unbalanced? I have found from later experience that the fast paddler can also is the be the lest reliable. I now tend to keep gruops to a max of four, that is all I can keep an eye at one time. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 Tomckayak_at_aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-06-04 19:51:00 EDT, hairond_at_super.net.uk writes: > > << On a different note we split the group in two after half an hour consisting > of the fast paddlers and slower ones. This worked wel as it ment people had > already began to split into a rough difference in paddling speeds. >> > > I suggested doing this with a large group I was leading some years ago. I > receieved objections from a senor paddler and kayak safety expert that the > fast gruop was also the most expeienced and skilled gruop. The mix of skills > would be unbalanced? > I have found from later experience that the fast paddler can also is the be > the lest reliable. I now tend to keep gruops to a max of four, that is all I > can keep an eye at one time. I'd second that - a lot of fast paddlers just aren't interested in slowing down. From what I see of the people I paddle with, I'm also not sure that speed and rescue skills are particularly well correlated. Sometimes the fast people get that way because they spend their water time paddling, not practicing rescues. Joy Hecht Arlington VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I missed the end of this thread, so forgive me if I redund... 1. I'd like a source for a good, BRIGHT, PDF and sprayskirt. I'm talking florescence. 2. Why would one want a sea-blue PDF? I encounter the same thing in bike gear; stealth coloration seems innapropriate for either. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I think Extrasport makes the brightest yellow PFD. Also, Perception sells the See/Rescue "high visibility locating device" in three sizes - bright orange vinyl you lay on the water for air rescue. Reuseable. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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