Dan Hagen wrote: "Soon I'll be heading to the upper reaches of Glacier Bay where there's not much by way of fuel. I am wondering (1) if there will be enough fuel (probably yes, given that the stove requires only twigs), and (2) if they are legal in that area (probably not, given that the Park Service requires the use of gas stoves in the upper bay). I will check" Dan, I just returned from a week of kayak camping in Glacier Bay National Park. It is a truly special place, and I'm sure you'll enjoy it. However, fuel for fires, even twigs or driftwood for a Sierra Zip stove, was not available at most of the places we camped. In the upper Bay, virtually all the campable beaches were rocky, with rock ranging from gravel size to melon-sized boulders. And landward, coming right up to the beaches were either impenetrable alder thickets or rock cliffs. The alders are not only tough going but were obviously definitely bear habitat. By all means check with the National Park Service in Glacier Bay before leaving your liquid fuel behind, especially if you don't already know exactly where you'll pitch your tent. (And you probably don't, because there may be someone else there ahead of you.) Actually I would still recommend using liquid fuel anyhow, because I see that area as certainly calling for "Leave No Trace" camping. It was clear that visitor pressure is on the rise for the Park. There is a visitor orientation required at the Park HQ, including watching bears on videotape and obtaining bearproof food containers. Certain areas within the Park are closed, either due to fairly recent bear/human interactions, or for protection of wildlife such as the pupping seals. You might also want to consider the recent Paddlewise discussion on packing out human body waste, kitty litter in sealable containers, etc. We were there the week before the big Memorial Day seasonal opening and the park was immaculate. I hope kayakers can demonstrate a commitment to keep it in as good a condition as we saw it in. Enjoy your trip! (And be prepared for rain!) John Somers *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
As an alternative to conventionally fueled stoves, you might want to consider Sierra Stoves. The Sierra Zip burns sticks, twigs, pinecones, and bits of driftwood (being careful to avoid anything that looks like it was pressure- treated!) and other dried flotsam. It is very light (about 15 oz.) and about the same size, overall, as my ancient Svea. But, when you get it stoked, it's a real forge! The specs say it'll boil a quart of water in four minutes (apologies for all these units of measure --- what's <metric> for a minute, anyway?) but that seems a little fast --- about twice as fast as my Svea could do it with white gas! But it's <hot>! Runs about $50-$60 US. The way it works is a thing of engineering beauty! The Zip comes with a little AA battery powered fan which clips in as the base of the unit. The fan blows air up into the bottom of the fire chamber housing; the air travels up the outer portion of the interior of the housing, down an inner baffle and into the bottom of the fire chamber, pre-warmed and at sufficient velocity --- there's a two position switch for air flow --- to really get the fuel burning. It may sound a little wierd, but it's pretty rugged and really efficient! At the end of a cooking session, there's not more than a couple of tablespoons of ash --- and that, the literature says, can be used as toothpaste. (Throw a few mint leaves in with that, and you've got a "Tom's of Maine" knockoff!) The advantages are obvious --- no fuel to carry (or eat). The battery lasts almost forever, there's so little drain. The downside is that you really have to keep feeding wood chips into the fire chamber once it's going, 'cause the fire is hot and consumes a lot of detritus. But that's it! Getting it started is not a big issue --- pine straw works pretty well, and twigs. Even on the very wetest day in Alaska --- how does anyone determine the <wetest> day in Alaska ... there were so many from which to choose! --- I had no problem finding some dry tinder. (The literature --- and the "book" is really just a double-sided photocopy of some pointers --- suggests saturating cotton balls in Vaseline and storing a whole bunch of them in a plastic film can to use as firestarters --- possibly a viable option in western Canada or Alaska, I guess. Seemed like a good idea.) There is a larger Sierra, although I've never seen one, except in pictures. But the Zip should support a solo or pair of campers --- use it as you'd use a Svea or equivalent. One source for this unit is Campmor in New Jersey --- 1-800-226-7667 or the web, <http:www.campmor.com>, but it's New Jersey and the patois is a little difficult to understand, so stick to the web and their fax line, 1-800-230-2153 for credit card ordering. They have the unit for $49.95 US, and they also have a new one liter (aha!) pot and a windscreen and grill which are compatible with the Sierra Zip for $13.99 and $17.99 US, respectively. Don't have them, but will soon. Standard disclaimer --- I have no connection with Campmor, yada, yada, yada. Just good stuff, surprisingly light and still rugged, not too expensive, and no fuel to carry (or eat). Sticks, pinecones and chipable wood are just about always available, and you can think of it as beach cleanup, too. To my knowledge, these units are legal in any camping scenario where a liquid fueled stove is allowed. A nice option! Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Joq wrote: > > As an alternative to conventionally fueled stoves, you might want to consider > Sierra Stoves. The Sierra Zip burns sticks, twigs, pinecones, and bits of > driftwood (being careful to avoid anything that looks like it was pressure- > treated!) and other dried flotsam. ... A nice option! I agree, this does seem like a nice option, at least for most areas. Soon I'll be heading to the upper reaches of Glacier Bay where there's not much by way of fuel. I am wondering (1) if there will be enough fuel (probably yes, given that the stove requires only twigs), and (2) if they are legal in that area (probably not, given that the Park Service requires the use of gas stoves in the upper bay). I will check on number (2). This seems like a nice option for long trips. By the way, does the stove simmer, or is this just a boil-up-some-water type of thing? How controllable is the heat output? Dan Hagen Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dan Hagen wrote: > > Joq wrote: > > > > As an alternative to conventionally fueled stoves, you might want to consider > > Sierra Stoves. The Sierra Zip burns sticks, twigs, pinecones, and bits of > > driftwood (being careful to avoid anything that looks like it was pressure- > > treated!) and other dried flotsam. ... A nice option! > > I agree, this does seem like a nice option, at least for most areas. > Soon I'll be heading to the upper reaches of Glacier Bay where there's > not much by way of fuel. I am wondering (1) if there will be enough fuel > (probably yes, given that the stove requires only twigs), and (2) if > they are legal in that area (probably not, given that the Park Service > requires the use of gas stoves in the upper bay). I will check on number > (2). This seems like a nice option for long trips. By the way, does > the stove simmer, or is this just a boil-up-some-water type of thing? > How controllable is the heat output? > > Dan Hagen > Bellingham, Washington I too own one of these stoves. With a little practice, there is nothing a person can't cook on this little stove. It will simmer with the best of them and better than a lot! One of the best fuels for very controlable cooking is the charred bits that are left over in fire pits from someones else fire. These just save you the time and trouble of burning down twigs into charcol and helps police up an area. As Jack said, it has a two speed fan that runs on a single AA battery. There is also a devise called the X-tra grate. It is a X shaped affair that sets on top to raise your pot. That allows you to simmer even easier.(I've never needed it) They also sell a spark arrester. With it in place and a pot on the stove, no spark can get out. I would say it's as safe as any fuel stove in the hands of a cauious camper.(a flame is a flame in the wrong hands) The stove and wind screen fits perfectly inside the 1 qt. pot and skillet lid. All fits in a nylon carrying bag. Stove and cooking kit weigh in at just 2 lbs. Once you get a small fire going in it, the thing will burn even wet wood. It has been my understanding that any place that allows the burning of gas stoves will allow this stove if fitted with the spark arrester. I'd check ahead anyway. http://www.gorp.com/zzstove/ Here is yet anouther way to go. http://www.backpacking.net/stove/stove.html James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
This is great information Jack, Can you tell us how long the AAA battery lasts with continual use? I relate well to your contrast to the tough little 'Svea' stove, which was always a miniture hiroshima for me when getting started. I used to freek out when the entire stove top was amass in flame then gradually settling down to a roaring burn. It was easy to modulate the burn with the key, as long as it was not too hot to pick up %^) Whisper light (International) stove which replaced my 'Svea' with has served me well. However, having to pack a couple of fuel bottles remains the only draw back to this great stove. However, if this (black smith type 'bellows fired') stove is that light and efficient it may offer serious alternative to packing fuel. Thanks for the tip. Best Regards, Philip JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: > As an alternative to conventionally fueled stoves, you might want to consider > Sierra Stoves. The Sierra Zip burns sticks, twigs, pinecones, and bits of > driftwood (being careful to avoid anything that looks like it was pressure- > treated!) and other dried flotsam. It is very light (about 15 oz.) and about > the same size, overall, as my ancient Svea. But, when you get it stoked, it's > a real forge! The specs say it'll boil a quart of water in four minutes > (apologies for all these units of measure --- what's <metric> for a minute, > anyway?) but that seems a little fast --- about twice as fast as my Svea could > do it with white gas! But it's <hot>! Runs about $50-$60 US. > > The way it works is a thing of engineering beauty! The Zip comes with a > little AA battery powered fan which clips in as the base of the unit. The fan > blows air up into the bottom of the fire chamber housing; the air travels up > the outer portion of the interior of the housing, down an inner baffle and > into the bottom of the fire chamber, pre-warmed and at sufficient velocity --- > there's a two position switch for air flow --- to really get the fuel burning. > It may sound a little wierd, but it's pretty rugged and really efficient! At > the end of a cooking session, there's not more than a couple of tablespoons of > ash --- and that, the literature says, can be used as toothpaste. (Throw a > few mint leaves in with that, and you've got a "Tom's of Maine" knockoff!) > The advantages are obvious --- no fuel to carry (or eat). The battery lasts > almost forever, there's so little drain. The downside is that you really have > to keep feeding wood chips into the fire chamber once it's going, 'cause the > fire is hot and consumes a lot of detritus. But that's it! Getting it > started is not a big issue --- pine straw works pretty well, and twigs. Even > on the very wetest day in Alaska --- how does anyone determine the <wetest> > day in Alaska ... there were so many from which to choose! --- I had no > problem finding some dry tinder. (The literature --- and the "book" is really > just a double-sided photocopy of some pointers --- suggests saturating cotton > balls in Vaseline and storing a whole bunch of them in a plastic film can to > use as firestarters --- possibly a viable option in western Canada or Alaska, > I guess. Seemed like a good idea.) > > There is a larger Sierra, although I've never seen one, except in pictures. > But the Zip should support a solo or pair of campers --- use it as you'd use a > Svea or equivalent. One source for this unit is Campmor in New Jersey --- > 1-800-226-7667 or the web, <http:www.campmor.com>, but it's New Jersey and the > patois is a little difficult to understand, so stick to the web and their fax > line, 1-800-230-2153 for credit card ordering. They have the unit for $49.95 > US, and they also have a new one liter (aha!) pot and a windscreen and grill > which are compatible with the Sierra Zip for $13.99 and $17.99 US, > respectively. Don't have them, but will soon. Standard disclaimer --- I have > no connection with Campmor, yada, yada, yada. > > Just good stuff, surprisingly light and still rugged, not too expensive, and > no fuel to carry (or eat). Sticks, pinecones and chipable wood are just about > always available, and you can think of it as beach cleanup, too. To my > knowledge, these units are legal in any camping scenario where a liquid fueled > stove is allowed. A nice option! > > Jack Martin > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>Can you tell us how long the AAA battery lasts with continual >use? The manufacturer's site at: http://www.gorp.com/zzstove/default.htm says 6 hours for an AA battery - 35 hours for an optional D battery. This a really an interesting stove. I don't see a description of its construction. What's it make from - Stainless? I would think that anything else would burn out too soon. Bob Tellefson http://www.zooid.com/sbpaddle *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-06-04 11:41:11 EDT, pjwylie_at_planet.eon.net writes: << Can you tell us how long the AAA battery lasts with continual use? I relate well to your contrast to the tough little 'Svea' stove, which was always a miniture hiroshima for me when getting started. >> Will have to take a look at the "literature" on the battery --- a double A, by the way --- but it's a lot of hours. Like 20 maybe? Dunno --- will post it when I get home. Can understand your analogy on the Svea. I found that coating the stalk with jelly firestarter did a pretty good job pressurizing the tank --- especially when it was several degrees below freezing outside --- but you could easily lose eyebrows when you turned the key! Always checked the tightness of the filler cap first, though. My Svea 123 is about 35 years old and still going strong. And you're right. The Zip would have a lot of advantages in backpacking. Liquid is heavy. Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-06-04 11:55:36 EDT, dan_at_hagen.net writes: << Soon I'll be heading to the upper reaches of Glacier Bay where there's not much by way of fuel. I am wondering (1) if there will be enough fuel (probably yes, given that the stove requires only twigs), and (2) if they are legal in that area (probably not, given that the Park Service requires the use of gas stoves in the upper bay). I will check on number (2). This seems like a nice option for long trips. By the way, does the stove simmer, or is this just a boil-up-some-water type of thing? How controllable is the heat output?>> The definitive answer on the use of these things in state parks appears to be, "it depends." Ya' gotta check. In some parks --- and I just researched your question --- they <are> placed in the same category as liquid fueled stoves; in others, they're considered open fires. Re finessing the heat level: it can be done, but not with the degree of control you'd have with an "analog" valve on a fuel source. But turning off the blower will lower the fire a bit and not adding fuel for a while will cool things down some as well, I suppose. Turning the blower up and throwing in another couple of pinecones will spice things up a bit. Rocket science this ain't! Don't look for any 17 pinecone souffle recipes at Barnes and Noble. But please post any info you get on their legality, Dan. Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-06-04 15:27:33 EDT, lists_at_zooid.com writes: << This a really an interesting stove. I don't see a description of its construction. What's it make from - Stainless? I would think that anything else would burn out too soon. >> Thanks for the specs, Bob. It's aluminum or some sort of alloy, as far as I can tell. That's part of the beauty of it --- the fan keeps the air moving through the the housing, cooling the housing and the fire chamber, while the now-heated air is used to optimize combustion of the fuel. The exterior is hot to the touch when it's ripping, but I think it might even be handleable --- although I've never tried. Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:32:50 PDT