Spent some money wisely and took a lesson from the local paddling guru, name of Ben. One of Ben's variations of the paddlefloat reentry seemed better than my version. I've been setting up the paddle with the shaft strapped to the deck just behind the cockpit, and then attacking the boat-outrigger system from the COCKPIT side of the outrigger, humping my upper body over the paddleshaft onto the back deck, inserting legs into cockpit, and then rotating my lower torso around to an upright position. (Dave's method) Ben's method involves attacking the boat-outrigger system from the REAR DECK side of the outrigger, which allows looping an ankle over the shaft to assist in getting onto the deck. This seemed easier. Then, he rotates his body around a vertical axis to move both legs, in turn, across the outrigger and down into the cockpit (simultaneously his upper body moves over to the centerline of the rear deck). Rotation of the torso around a (more or less) horizontal axis then produces an upright position. (Ben's method) I'm curious. Who favors Dave's method and who favors Ben's method? I'm pretty sure I evolved my method very unsystematically, and may never have tried Ben's way. I think Ben's way is now going to be MY WAY (apologies to the late Chairman of the Board). -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
OK then, some clarification. . . At 03:18 AM 6/7/98 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: >Ben's method involves attacking the boat-outrigger system from the REAR >DECK side of the outrigger, which allows looping an ankle over the shaft >to assist in getting onto the deck. I'm assuming working off the port/left side of the boat: Are we hooking the ankle of the RIGHT foot over the paddle??? and pulling RIGHT side of the body on the up on the rear deck? >This seemed easier. Then, he >rotates his body around a vertical axis to move both legs, in turn, >across the outrigger and down into the cockpit (simultaneously his upper >body moves over to the centerline of the rear deck). RIGHT leg then LEFT leg into the boat? Facing more or less forward? This means moving the "ankle hook" from the LEFT foot to the RIGHT foot. . . (gets you up out of the water and at deck level) >Rotation of the >torso around a (more or less) horizontal axis then produces an upright >position. (Ben's method) Quarter turn counter-clockwise into the cockpit? I'm visualizing coming at the re-entry facing the cockpit and putting legs in the cockpit facing forward while on one's (right) side. Then a quarter turn counter-clockwise from leaning on the right side to sitting upright. Brace against out-rigger paddle with left hand. Grip coaming and paddle with right hand. This would allow seeing the feet and cockpit. . . The quarter turn is more like the paddle braced entry from dock or shore. Is this what you're suggesting? I like this idea a lot. My "other" method includes a pull across the cockpit and rear deck with the face of the PFD. . . dragging/snagging everything in the front pockets. Then drifting blind-butt-to-the-bow while using the Braille method to find the cockpit with one, then both legs. Finally there's a half turn (clock-wise) from being flopped-out face-down on the deck to trying to face forward. . . This is where it all comes apart if you fail to brace against the paddle float while turning around. But hand grips on the paddle outrigger are wrong for a good brace. . . I end up practicing a "wet exit" more often then I want to. . . Ben's method sounds ergonomically more efficient! Geo. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Geo. Bergeron wrote: > > OK then, some clarification. . . > > At 03:18 AM 6/7/98 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: > > >Ben's method involves attacking the boat-outrigger system from the REAR > >DECK side of the outrigger, which allows looping an ankle over the shaft > >to assist in getting onto the deck. > > I'm assuming working off the port/left side of the boat: Are we > hooking the ankle of the RIGHT foot over the paddle??? and pulling RIGHT > side of the body on the up on the rear deck? NO. If working off the port side, attacking the outrigger from the rear deck side of the outrigger places your LEFT ankle in a natural position to loop over the paddleshaft, near the outrigger blade. And, no, I would not say you pull your right or left side of your body onto the rear deck -- when I did it, my chest was pretty much flat onto the deck. I held the paddleshaft and the cockpit coaming with my left hand and gripped the far side of the rear deck with my right hand and mantelshelfed my upper torso onto the rear deck. To grab the coaming and the opposite side of the rear deck this way, you have to be pretty flat onto the deck. > >This seemed easier. Then, he rotates his body [CLOCKWISE] around a > >***vertical*** axis [pretty much through the butt] to move both legs, in turn, > >across the outrigger and down into the cockpit (simultaneously his upper > >body moves over to the centerline of the rear deck). > > RIGHT leg then LEFT leg into the boat? Facing more or less forward? NO. Left leg first, then move right leg into the "ankle on the paddle" position as you rotate clockwise. The left leg would be entering the cockpit more or less at the same time as the right leg moves onto the paddle shaft. This is far easier to do than it is to describe. > This means moving the "ankle hook" from the LEFT foot to the RIGHT foot. . . > (gets you up out of the water and at deck level) Well, the bod is pretty much entirely out of the water throughout. > >Rotation of the torso around a (more or less) horizontal axis then > >produces an upright position. (Ben's method) > > Quarter turn counter-clockwise into the cockpit? More like a third of a turn, from initial vault onto the rear deck to full-on seg insertion into the cockpit. > I'm visualizing coming at the re-entry facing the cockpit and > putting legs in the cockpit facing forward while on one's (right) side. Then > a quarter turn counter-clockwise from leaning on the right side to sitting > upright. Brace against out-rigger paddle with left hand. Grip coaming and > paddle with right hand. > This would allow seeing the feet and cockpit. . . The quarter turn > is more like the paddle braced entry from dock or shore. Is this what > you're suggesting? Re: previous two paragraphs: Not exactly. You could lean onto your right side a little, I guess, in order to see where you are putting your feet, but this method does NOT avoid the snagging problem refered to below. > I like this idea a lot. My "other" method includes a pull across the > cockpit and rear deck with the face of the PFD. . . dragging/snagging > everything in the front pockets. Then drifting blind-butt-to-the-bow while > using the Braille method to find the cockpit with one, then both legs. [snip] -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave; I have long favored the behind the paddle method of paddle float re-entry. In addition to other benefits it enables you to easily re-enter your boat using a paddlefloat without having to use a system to fasten the paddle to the boat. Simply (if you are entering from the left side of the boat) place the shaft of the paddle immediately behind the cockpit and with your left hand hold onto the paddle shaft and the cockpit coaming at the same time. When you have lunged onto the back deck stabilize the paddle with your left leg and then begin the process of climbing over the paddle (using first the left leg then the right leg and finally the right and then the left hands). Bring the unattached paddle forward and rest it across the coaming in front of you and rest on it with your elbows as you pump out your boat. [This process is made much easier if you have a foot pump.] John Winskill Dave Kruger wrote: > > Spent some money wisely and took a lesson from the local paddling guru, > name of Ben. > > One of Ben's variations of the paddlefloat reentry seemed better than my > version. I've been setting up the paddle with the shaft strapped to the > deck just behind the cockpit, and then attacking the boat-outrigger > system from the COCKPIT side of the outrigger, humping my upper body > over the paddleshaft onto the back deck, inserting legs into cockpit, > and then rotating my lower torso around to an upright position. (Dave's > method) > > Ben's method involves attacking the boat-outrigger system from the REAR > DECK side of the outrigger, which allows looping an ankle over the shaft > to assist in getting onto the deck. This seemed easier. Then, he > rotates his body around a vertical axis to move both legs, in turn, > across the outrigger and down into the cockpit (simultaneously his upper > body moves over to the centerline of the rear deck). Rotation of the > torso around a (more or less) horizontal axis then produces an upright > position. (Ben's method) > > I'm curious. Who favors Dave's method and who favors Ben's method? I'm > pretty sure I evolved my method very unsystematically, and may never > have tried Ben's way. I think Ben's way is now going to be MY WAY > (apologies to the late Chairman of the Board). > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> One of Ben's variations of the paddlefloat reentry seemed better than > my > version. I've been setting up the paddle with the shaft strapped to > the > deck just behind the cockpit, and then attacking the boat-outrigger > system from the COCKPIT side of the outrigger, humping my upper body > over the paddleshaft onto the back deck, inserting legs into cockpit, > and then rotating my lower torso around to an upright position. > (Dave's > method) > > I've seen several people mention strapping the shaft down. Why? All I do is place the paddle behind the cockpit, hoist myself halfway up the cockpit, hook my near foot over the paddle, twist myself over the back deck and slide my feet in (all in calm water of course). The back deck of my Looksha IV is a little higher than the cockpit coaming creating a little indentation that looks like it was built for this manuever. I take it other models are more rounded. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Sisler, Clyde wrote: > > > One of Ben's variations of the paddlefloat reentry seemed better than my > > version. I've been setting up the paddle with the shaft strapped to the > > deck just behind the cockpit, [snip] > I've seen several people mention strapping the shaft down. Why? Don't think I will ever use the straps again. The idea was to give a more secure attachment for the paddle, rather than sliding the blade under the rear deck bungies. Does that, all right, but use of the straps also allows more play in the paddle/boat connection, and significantly increases the difficulty in getting onto the rear deck. The straps are "quick release" types, which also allow the paddler to quickly bring the paddle around front, relative to the bungie method. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR sea kayaker -- and chemistry teacher *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:03 AM 6/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >Don't think I will ever use the straps again. The idea was to give a >more secure attachment for the paddle, rather than sliding the blade >under the rear deck bungies. Does that, all right, but use of the >straps also allows more play in the paddle/boat connection, and >significantly increases the difficulty in getting onto the rear deck. >The straps are "quick release" types, which also allow the paddler to >quickly bring the paddle around front, relative to the bungie method. Well, now we have a thread going. . . I've got this theory/hypothesis/concept about re-entry and may spend some time this week in the filthy Willamette testing it out. Port-Side Re-Entry: 1) Approach the re-entry from behind the paddle/float which is held in place by the right hand. 2) Facing away from the hull, bring the left foot/ankle up to hook at the end of the paddle/float. 3) Grasping the paddle-shaft/coaming with the right hand and gripping the paddle mid-shaft with the left hand, facing 3/4 forward toward the cockpit . . . kick the free right foot and boost your body onto the rear deck, coming to rest on the right side of the body with the hip at the point of the coaming/paddle and right hand. It may be more efficient to extend the left arm behind the body and along the rear deck. This move is a lot like the standard high-jump vault over the bar--only you get to use the "bar" for leverage. 4) Roll onto the right side of the body. Transfer the right "ankle-hook" to a left "ankle-hook" and move the right leg into the cockpit while facing forward. 5) Move the left arm brace outside the left hip and onto the paddle shaft. Place the left leg into the cockpit while bracing/balancing on the paddle shaft with the left arm. This becomes the standard paddle braced entry from shore. 6) Bring the paddle in front of the body and across the lap to brace while pumping the bilges. I need to try this out on the water. . . but it makes sense that it would solve the problems of dragging the contents in the PFD pockets across the deck. Also, the re-entry would be face forward rather than trying to put the feet in the cockpit "blind" while on one's stomach--and then having to manage a 180 degree turn and sit into the cockpit. If it works, it works! Overboard and awash, Geo. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
George; I'm curious how it goes for you. The advantage of doing the rescue in the standard face-down manner is that it keeps your weight down until you are nearly fully into your boat. I'm also interested in how your shoulders hold up during the rescue. I'm looking forward to hearing from you after you try it. John Wondkill Geo. Bergeron wrote: > > At 09:03 AM 6/8/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >Don't think I will ever use the straps again. The idea was to give a > >more secure attachment for the paddle, rather than sliding the blade > >under the rear deck bungies. Does that, all right, but use of the > >straps also allows more play in the paddle/boat connection, and > >significantly increases the difficulty in getting onto the rear deck. > >The straps are "quick release" types, which also allow the paddler to > >quickly bring the paddle around front, relative to the bungie method. > > Well, now we have a thread going. . . I've got this > theory/hypothesis/concept about re-entry and may spend some time this week > in the filthy Willamette testing it out. > > Port-Side Re-Entry: > > 1) Approach the re-entry from behind the paddle/float which is held > in place by the right hand. > > 2) Facing away from the hull, bring the left foot/ankle up to hook > at the end of the paddle/float. > > 3) Grasping the paddle-shaft/coaming with the right hand and > gripping the paddle mid-shaft with the left hand, facing 3/4 forward toward > the cockpit . . . kick the free right foot and boost your body onto the rear > deck, coming to rest on the right side of the body with the hip at the point > of the coaming/paddle and right hand. It may be more efficient to extend the > left arm behind the body and along the rear deck. This move is a lot like > the standard high-jump vault over the bar--only you get to use the "bar" for > leverage. > > 4) Roll onto the right side of the body. Transfer the right > "ankle-hook" to a left "ankle-hook" and move the right leg into the cockpit > while facing forward. > > 5) Move the left arm brace outside the left hip and onto the paddle > shaft. Place the left leg into the cockpit while bracing/balancing on the > paddle shaft with the left arm. This becomes the standard paddle braced > entry from shore. > > 6) Bring the paddle in front of the body and across the lap to brace > while pumping the bilges. > > I need to try this out on the water. . . but it makes sense that it > would solve the problems of dragging the contents in the PFD pockets across > the deck. Also, the re-entry would be face forward rather than trying to put > the feet in the cockpit "blind" while on one's stomach--and then having to > manage a 180 degree turn and sit into the cockpit. If it works, it works! > > Overboard and awash, Geo. > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Sounds interesting, and it will certainly be fun to try out. As I worked through your description I found myself wondering how high the shoulders would be above the boat at the completion of step 3 (see below). I picture it with the right hip on the deck and upper body nearly erect (just got funny looks from coworkers as I tried this on the floor<g>). Have to see if this induces an instabilty to starboard if one does not concentrate on leaning hard on the paddle shaft. I like to try to keep the center of gravity as low as possible (for me that means my shoulders). Good luck with this, I'll play with it one of these evenings in a local lake. Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska > -----Original Message----- > George wrote > <snip> > 3) Grasping the paddle-shaft/coaming with the right hand and > gripping the paddle mid-shaft with the left hand, facing 3/4 forward > toward > the cockpit . . . kick the free right foot and boost your body onto > the rear > deck, coming to rest on the right side of the body with the hip at the > point > of the coaming/paddle and right hand. It may be more efficient to > extend the > left arm behind the body and along the rear deck. This move is a lot > like > the standard high-jump vault over the bar--only you get to use the > "bar" for > leverage. > <snip> > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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