-----Original Message----- From: dkruger [mailto:dkruger_at_seasurf.com] Sent: Sunday, June 21, 1998 7:53 AM To: PaddleWise Cc: Les Uhrich Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Bow lines and racks Jack_Martin_at_jtif.webfld.navy.mil wrote: [snip] > Was speaking with a Yakima customer service rep yesterday about kayak > racks. He gave me what sounded like a standard "please always use bow > and stern lines" disclaimer, which grew into a short discussion. > Apparently Yak did some tests recently, and discovered that when a > vehicle with a sea kayak on the roof passes a semi-truck heading the > opposite direction on a two lane highway, the wind blast created > generates a 200 pound instantaneous vertical lift on the boat's bow. > That's a bunch of pounds now trying to lever your boat out of its > straps or, as Chuck Sutherland pointed out this morning on his CPA > response, the forward rack and boat off the roof! He was not speaking > hypothetically, apparently. [snip] Two hundred pounds of lift could be significant in affecting the rack-roof connection, all right. I suspect this was measured at the point where the rack meets the roof, and *not* the tip of the nose. (Tougher to measure there.) Is that what he said, Joq? I think an unopposed 200 lb force exerted *at the tip* of a typical FG yak, if the yak is in its usual position in the rack, would do damage to the gel coat (stress cracks), as a *minimum.* I'll test this with *someone else's* yak, not mine, thank you! (BTW, I have seen similar "stretch marks" in a kevlar/epoxy yak which was overtightened at the bow line while in a vehicle rack -- probably produced by much less than 200 lbs of force at the bow.) If the 200 lbs was measured at the rack position, there is an easy way to approximately simulate that vertical force: Most of us can push upwards with at least 50 lbs of force. Just push up on the tip of the bow, and then the tip of the stern, with the effort needed to lift the average 5-year-old. Because of the lever arm between the tip of the yak and the strap position, there should be at least 200 lbs of vertical force on the straps, I think. FWIW, I've watched the bow of my FG Wind Dancer "jump" to the side when meeting a semi at high speed on a two-lane road. It moves a LOT! Because the straps I use are rated for about 2000 lbs, and I have a truck with real rain gutters, so the rack is firmly attached to the truck, I have not used a bow or stern line. Probably should, to be belt-and-suspenders safe, though! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR ************************************************************************** * I always use bow lines on cross-country trips, but I confess that for tooling around the city with my kayak, I don't bother. Here's a rack story of another kind: Last Friday I left my Accord wagon at the dealer to have the air conditioning repaired. About mid-morning I got a call saying they might have damaged my rack when it banged into something over the lift (their stop sensor went between the bars). I have homemade wood saddles mounted to a Yakima rack. When I got the car home I noticed that the side plates on the forward rack towers were sprung and that the towers seemed very loose; otherwise I couldn't see anything wrong with the towers or saddles. I decided, though, that I should replace the towers at the dealer's expense. Once the front towers were off the car, I discovered why they were so loose: beneath each tower was a half-inch depression in the roof of the car roughly the shape of the tower pad! This is the second time I have had an accident with a Yakima rack, and each time the car has come out in worse shape than the rack. (The first time, a garbage truck backed into a canoe that was tied on the car. As the rack was ripped off the car, the rear towers left deep gouges in the steel gutters, yet only one tower was damaged.) My biggest complaint about Yakima racks is that the metal parts don't stand up well to corrosion, especially here in Minnesota where the roads are salted every winter. Gotta go call my dealer. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
CHUCK wrote: ..... >My biggest complaint about Yakima racks is that the metal parts don't >stand up well to corrosion, especially here in Minnesota where the roads >are salted every winter. I'll back that up. I recently had to move my rack from my old car (rain gutter), to my new car (Q Tower). I actually had to cut the plastic caps off the rack and cut the cores out. The pipes are rusted throughout the inside. I was surprised at how extensive the corrosion was. I had both the endcaps that come with the rack, and the caps that come with the paddle strap-on system. The paddle caps faired much better, I still had the rust. I will probably get some new piping next year and will silicon them. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: patrick.maun_at_duffy.com [mailto:patrick.maun_at_duffy.com] Sent: Monday, June 22, 1998 11:19 AM To: Chuck Holst; paddlewise Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Bow lines and racks CHUCK wrote: ..... >My biggest complaint about Yakima racks is that the metal parts don't >stand up well to corrosion, especially here in Minnesota where the roads >are salted every winter. I'll back that up. I recently had to move my rack from my old car (rain gutter), to my new car (Q Tower). I actually had to cut the plastic caps off the rack and cut the cores out. The pipes are rusted throughout the inside. I was surprised at how extensive the corrosion was. I had both the endcaps that come with the rack, and the caps that come with the paddle strap-on system. The paddle caps faired much better, I still had the rust. I will probably get some new piping next year and will silicon them. -Patrick ************************************************************************** * I sealed the ends of an older set of bars, but I left the new ones open because I was experimenting with adding an extension for side loading. What I found before was that silicone seal did not work well because changes in pressure (from solar heating, subzero nights, and atmospheric changes) caused the plug to loosen. Shoe Goo works quite well, however. It helps to stick a cotton ball down the tube first. Don't glue the end plugs on if you might ever want to remove the bars from the towers! It is also important to paint the ends of the bars where any bright (or rusty) metal shows. The new end plugs do seem to work better than the old caps. I suspect that most of the rust in the bars is caused by the afore-mentioned changes in pressure sucking moisture inside, rather than by rain or spray. To mount my homemade saddles to the Yakima bar I used carriage bolts and Yakima accessory clips. After I had to cut through one rusted bolt in order to remove the saddles, I went out and spent $12 on a set of stainless steel replacement bolts and nuts -- well worth it at the price. BTW, it will probably be a while before the car body is repaired. Because of a widespread hailstorm last month, some body shops are backed up into next year! Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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