Re: [Paddlewise] Greenland Stroke details

On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Julio MacWilliams wrote:

> I also experimented with positive angle of attack, versus the
> original negative "digging" angle. The main difference was that
> with the positive angle of attack one can brace and at the same time
> move forward. With the negative angle, bracing requires a quick
> movement of the wrist in order to get an upward lift.
> 
> The thing that became very annoying about the positive angle, however,
> was the loud 'ploupf' that the paddle makes when entering the
> water with positive angles. The original negative angle stroke
> is completely silent.

I've heard from George that the end of the paddle needs to approximate the
shape of a very well used bar of soap, and that will minimize the
splooshing as each end enters the water. It seems to work for me as well.
 
> The European paddle has more acceleration than the Greenland paddle,
> for the same paddling rate. That is, one can accelerate quickly with
> a Greenland paddle by using a very fast cadence --paddle like crazy.
> But for surfing and other activities that may require quick and
> short accelerations, the European paddle is more adequate.

Using the extended wing paddle technique, I have plenty of acceleration
for catching waves, although I do agree that there is more power availble
from a large bladed modern paddle. The smaller bladed modern paddles are
worse than a greenland paddle, IMO.

 > > Maybe a quick acceleration is the only Europan style stroke than
> can hardly be done with a Greenland paddle, unless you folks know more
> of those.
> 
> There is an interesting paddle that seems to be something in between,
> that is the Aleut paddle. It is narrow, but not that narrow, and
> the foil profile is not symmetrical. Some subscribers to the baidarka list
> are saying very good things about it. Have any of you folks tried one those?
> 


I've heard a little bit about these, and I am considering modifying my
paddle to approximate an Aleautian style. I think a little assymetry in
the blade might be a good thing, although nothing nearly like the
asymmetry of a modern wing paddle.

Cheers,
Kevin
> - Julio
> 
> > 
> > At 11:50 PM -0700 7/26/98, K. Whilden wrote:
> > 
> > >During the cruising stroke, with my arms tucked in close to the body, I
> > >switch the feather of my paddle halfway through, to maintain a positive
> > >angle of attack, It is harder to maintain a proper angle of attack during
> > >the first half of the stroke however, so I often very quickly slice the
> > >paddle downward so that I apply very little power during a negative angle
> > >of attack. Then I use the upward motion of the paddle to apply most of the
> > >torso rotation power. The wing stroke is essentially similar to the latter
> > >scenario.
> > 
> > 
> > VERY unscientific test this weekend: I did the stroke Kevin describes
> > above, maintaining a positive angle of attack on both the entry and the
> > exit part of the stroke. Kevin is right, it does work and it turns out this
> > is basically my standard stroke, I just hadn't really paid much attention
> > before. Then I tried it with several of my greenland paddles (note I was
> > using a modern paddle before) and it does give a more solid feel, tending
> > to reduce the tendancy for the paddle to flutter. Presumably instead of
> > shedding vortices off alternating edges, it keeps the vortex on one side.
> > It was hard to say whether there was any difference in efficiency between a
> > straight pull and a pull with positive angle of attack. I moved along just
> > fine with or without the positive AoA.
> > 
> > I forget if this positive AoA stroke technique was supposed to be a unique
> > ability of a greenland style stroke. I expect if most people examined their
> > stroke they would see that they do it to a certain extent no matter what
> > kind of paddle they use. An advantage for most people is that by angling
> > the power face of the paddle down they get a little brace at the beginning
> > of their stroke. Angling the powerface up during the exit just comes
> > naturally. Any increase in efficiency is worthwhile but probably not unique
> > to any particular paddle.
> > 
> > I'll stick with my modern paddle for most of my paddling, keeping my
> > greenland paddles for playing around with rolls. I still have not heard any
> > greenland technique which I can not reproduce with my modern paddle and for
> > the paddling I like doing my modern blade works better for me.
> > 
> > Nick
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Nick Schade
> > Guillemot Kayaks
> > c/o Newfound Woodworks, 67 Danforth Brook Rd, Bristol, NH 03222
> > (603) 744-6872
> > 
> > Schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com
> > http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/
> > 
> > >>>>"It's not just Art, It's a Craft!"<<<<
> > 
> > 
> > ***************************************************************************
> > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
> > Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> > Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
> > Website:         http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/
> > ***************************************************************************
> > 
> > 
> 
> ***************************************************************************
> PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
> Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Website:         http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/
> ***************************************************************************
> 

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/
***************************************************************************