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From: John Winters <735769_at_ican.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Greenland paddles
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:22:35 -0400
Mr Winters has asked me to comment on the Great Greenland Paddle
controversy which I do with some trepidation. You see, this argument has
been going on for centuries with little sign of resolution.

Native cultures have fought wars over this very topic (not having fiber
optic cables they had to debate face to face). Because few had the same
language the simplest method of proving one's point was to assault the
other person with the paddle. The southern natives used a bashing method
because most of the game they hunted was small and agile. A stabbing action
just didn't work because the animals were forever dodging out of the way.
The Inuit, who hunted large slow moving game, found a stabbing motion to be
more efficient so they used a narrow paddle. The hunting method was
important if they were to avoid starvation or be forced to eat bipedal
ground vegetarians so it was soon interwove with religion. Even today we
see the remains of these pagan religions surface in the zeal of Greenland
paddle users trying to convert the heretic Euro paddle users while the Euro
paddle users have resorted to infiltrating the kayaking education system to
promote their wide blade paddles.

You can imagine what happened when the two cultures clashed. The Inuit who
ventured south to enslave the natives of Colombia and force them to grow
cocaine that the Inuit then sold to bikers in Los Angeles were offended by
the sacrilege of bashing game. All attempts to convert the bashers failed
and eventually the Inuit, disgusted with such savages, retreated to the
north and bought all their cocaine from mules. The mules were somewhat
indiscriminate in how they packaged the cocaine and occasionally a bag
might burst and become mixed with mule effluent. This is how the phrase
"This is Good Shit" came into being within the drug culture.

It is a shame the Inuit did not send some of their anthropologists south
with their drug lords. They surely would have discovered native groups
using blow guns. Harnessed to a flatulent Inuit a blow gun would have been
a formidable weapon and could have changed the course of history. The
Amazonian natives never recognised the potential as they had no British
bangers to generate Methane in suitable quantities. The Greenlanders, of
course, had more than enough Bangers having brought back thousands of
pounds of them thinking they would be the beginning of trade with the
barbarian Brits. The attempt failed due to poor packaging. Had the Bangers
looked less like something obscene they might have caught on.

The Brits got the best end of the deal. They got sea kayaks in trade for
the Bangers, formed the BCU and told the world they invented sea kayaking.
Of course that meant they also had to invent the paddle. This they
entrusted to the British public school system that had been using paddles
for pounding knowledge into the minds of nobility. One can criticise the
lack of anatomical knowledge on the part of English schoolmasters but
remember this was the nobility and it is far from certain that their minds
aren't somewhat south of their bellies. Anyone who has eaten British food
will know why it isn't in their bellies. Indeed, it is often said (with
more than a little justification) that the way to an Englishman's heart is
painted with warm pissy tasting beer.

Of course, the noble little blighters were squirmy and a wide bladed paddle
was necessary if one was to hit them consistently. And so we can see how
the Brits unintentionally aided the wide blade cause of the southern
natives of the western hemisphere.

For those of you interested in such things it is worth studying the wide
bladed low aspect ratio paddles used south of the Mason Dixon line. The
Tarascan Indians used paddles that were very nearly round as did the
natives of Virginia. These round paddles served as large serving spoons for
North Carolina smoked bar-be-que.

The Inuit, having no Hickory trees, did not have smoked bar-b-que and had
to make do with uncooked caribou and seal fat.  This, of course explains
the Inuit paddle. The Inuit needed lots of area to keep their slippery fat
slathered hands from sliding off the paddle. Modern North Americans seeking
to duplicate the Inuit experience can use lard or Vaseline. But, you ask
with some justification, didn't the southern Indians have slippery hands
from eating the pork? Yes, they did but in the true scientific spirit they
asked, what would happen if we poured a mixture of hot peppers and vinegar
over the bar-b-cue. would that not make out hands less slippery.

Well it worked and while licking their fingers they discovered that it made
the bar-b-cue taste better. Thus was the first bar-b-cue sauce invented and
if you think this little tempest in a tea pot about paddles is blown out of
proportion then you should try to tell a North Carolinian that they make
better bar-b-cue sauce in Columbia South Carolina.

Dr. Peregrine Inverbon, Ph.d., DD, LL.d, Ph.G
Transcribed by his humble servant John Winters



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From: Nick Schade <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Greenland paddles
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:30:42 -0400
>Nick,
>It sounds like you have never used a greenland paddle properly, so let me
>answer a few things.
>
>	 ___________________
>
>	/   Kevin Whilden   \
>       |Dept. of Geosciences \___
>       |University of Washington \
>       |kwhilden_at_u.washington.edu|
>        \________________________/
>
>On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Nick Schade wrote:
>
>> At 11:59 AM -0700 7/22/98, Julio MacWilliams wrote:
>> >
>> >The Greenland paddle flies through the water, the lift component that
>> >is used to push the boat forward is more important than the side
>> >component used by the drag of the blade alone.
>SNIP
>>
>> This concept has been brought up before. The idea that the greenland paddle
>> uses lift to propel the boat just makes no physical sense. The paddle just
>> does not move far enough laterally through the water to provide significant
>> lift. It, like most paddles is being used primarily as a parachute, not a
>> wing.
>>
>
>This is simply not true. I have a degree in physics as well, and it makes
>perfect physical sense to me. The greenland paddle in its three main
>varieties of strokes has a high lateral component of velocity at the ends
>of the paddle. With the proper angle of attack and with a well constructed
>foil shape, there is laminar flow across the paddle, and lift is generated
>in the opposite direction of which the paddle is being pulled. Learning
>how to make the lateral velocity of the paddle fast enough to generate
>lift takes a fair bit of practice -- I can do it reliably in two of the
>three kinds of strokes. Come to Seattle and I'll show you. Greenland
>paddles generate lift.

I think of lift as a force generated roughly perpendicular to the direction
of motion. Like a wing flying horizontally gets lifted vertically. A force
generated opposite the direction sounds like what an army parachute does,
drag. I will defer to you, but when I said "lateral" I meant motion
perpendicular to the direction of motion.
>
>
>> Try paddling by only moving your hands up and down - no forward-backwards
>> motion, no body rotation. In other words do your best imitation of a
>> airplane propeller. You will be able to move yourself, but not as
>> effectively as if you just pull.
>
>This is not the same physical scenario as a wing paddle. Now if you swung
>your arms sideways out and in from the boat, with the hands cupped, then
>it would be the same. Kind of a dumb concept however, because your arms
>will never generate as much power as a paddle.

I realize that most of the force created by a wing paddle comes from
pulling parallel to the direction of motion. However, on the recovery, the
wing-paddler swings the blade out wide, perpendicular to the direction the
boat is going. During this phase of the stroke, the paddle generates "lift"
as I currently understand it.

Obviously, it would be dumb to try this with your hands. But if you were to
do it with your paddle, this would be known as sculling, a perfectly
reasonable thing to do. How fast can you make your boat go purely sculling?
This is propulsion by lift alone. I do not beleive you in fact do this.
Most good paddlers I have scene use some torso rotation and their hands
move forward and back. This motion suggests to me that they are using a
large component of drag with some lift to assist.

>
> >
>> The greenland paddle is an efficient wing in long sweeps where the blade is
>> slicing through the water. While paddling this is just the up-and-down
>> component of the motion, which given, the low hand possition is
>> intentionally small. Little motion = little lift => not much power.
>
>The paddle is indeed held low, however the hands are also held quite close
>together, so relatively little vertical hand motion is needed to make the
>ends of the paddle travel quite fast laterally. My paddle generates lift
>as I slice it downwards, and then again as I slice it upwards. This is in
>the high cadence "cruising" stroke that I defined in a previous post.
>
>>
>> The wing paddle is much better at this. The paddle is pushed deep and then
>> swung out to the side. There still is not a huge amount of lift provided,
>> but enough to improve it's overall efficiency.
>>
>There is enough lift generated to make the paddle leave the water
>technically farther ahead of the point that it was planted. There have
>been video studies that proven this, I have heard from racing friends.
>Greenland paddles can be used in the modern style of wing paddles... I
>call it the "racing" stroke. I use it to accelerate to catch waves.

I guess I am picking nits. I will accept the wing paddle leaves the water
ahead of where it enters, and if a wing paddle can, so too can a greenland
paddle or any other paddle, however, what percentage of the propulsion is
lift and what drag. Maybe we can not seperate the two, but John has numbers.

If we take John's numbers as accurate. A "pure-drag" stroke is 86%
efficient, and a wing paddle is 92% efficient, only about 7% (6/86) of the
propulsion is provided by lift. Now lets assume the greenland paddle is
twice as good at lift because it is really good. Still all you get is 14%
of the power due to lift unless the paddle is not as good at drag. In the
end it is probably a wash, but still lift is a small component of the
overall efficiency. It may not be insignificant, even 7% is worthwhile, but
I expect I could get similar results with any paddle, there is nothing
magic about the greenland paddle in this respect. The stroke used with a
greenland paddle can be reproduced with any paddle to similar effect.

>
>It's fun to talk physics regarding paddles. Cheers,
>Kevin
> >




Nick Schade
Guillemot Kayaks
c/o Newfound Woodworks, 67 Danforth Brook Rd, Bristol, NH 03222
(603) 744-6872

Schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/

>>>>"It's not just Art, It's a Craft!"<<<<


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From: James W. Durkin <jwd_at_phonogram.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Greenland paddles
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 15:08:44 -0500
On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 06:09:01PM -0500, Mike O'Byrne wrote:

> JWD! I built a Pygmy Coho last winter to the tune of about 120 hours
> in my "spare" time. I was using a very nice Swift paddle, but the
> more I paddled my beautiful boat, the more I realized something was
> off kilter. I finally discovered what was wrong! I had a boat that
> had a lot of "me" in it, but I was paddling with a store bought
> (albeit very nice) paddle. Aha! I purchased a stick of Port Orford
> Cedar and carved myself up a beaut of a Greenland paddle in about 6
> hours with an antique draw knife. I now paddle in serenity, probably
> never to go back to "the spoons!" Hey, if you're going to build a
> boat, try the paddle! Best wishes!

Thanks for the helpful suggestions Mike.

I forget what boat caught my eye in the Pygmy line, but in the CLC
offerings, one of the two I would like to build is a Pax 20.  If
you've seen the boat, it probably would be most "comfortable" being
paddled with an Epic Wing :-)

But your suggestions have an interesting ring to them.  Besides,
antique draw knives are something I have at least a dozen of, as I
started collecting old hand tools when I was a teenager, after reading
and looking at the pictures in Eric Sloan's books.  Of course, that
was 20+ years ago, and I'm sure at least 2 or 3 of the planes in my
collection would, at today's prices, would individually pay for my
entire tool collection.  Obviously, I don't collect anymore -- too
bloody expensive (just like everything else old that people with too
much money and too little appreciation of what they're buying do to
the market).

.. end rant ..

-.- jwd

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