I've made over 40 canoe trips in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, just across the border from Quetico, but I wouldn't kayak there except on the largest, most accessible lakes. The main reason is that sea kayaks are much harder to portage than canoes. First, you have to portage two kayaks instead of one canoe. Second, they are heavier than a good lightweight fiberglass or Kevlar canoe (my foam core, skin coat, fiberglass Jensen 18 weighs about 52 pounds; Kevlar versions weigh about 20 pounds less). Third, it takes two people to carry one Sealution versus one person to carry one canoe for two people. Fourth, tight turns and steep hills on some portages made it more awkward to carry a kayak from the ends than a canoe from the middle. As for carrying them with one person on either side, forget it; many portages are too narrow for that. Fifth, many portages are rocky, rooted, or slippery; when two carry a boat, falls and twisted ankles are more likely if the people move out of sync, which is likely on rough ground. Sixth, food and gear must be stowed in small packages in kayaks versus two or three large packs in a canoe. This means a lot of time unpacking and repacking on each portage (I don't recommend carrying a loaded kayak). I used to portage my internal frame pack and canoe while my partner portaged her pack and the food pack, so we never had to make more than one trip over a portage. With two kayaks and lots of little packages, I can imagine you making as many as seven trips over each portage, including return trips. Remember, my experience is with the BWCAW, which is much more heavily traveled than Quetico. From what I have heard, most BWCAW portage trails are highways compared to many Quetico portage trails. I recommend that you rent a lightweight Kevlar canoe and leave your kayaks at home. Chuck Holst Former Sealution owner -----Original Message----- From: Dominique Berube [mailto:dberube_at_vdsagax.ca] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 3:25 PM To: PaddleWise Subject: [Paddlewise] Quetico Provicial Park in Hi We are planning a three week trip to Quetico P.P. in northwestern Ontario at the end of september with our two sea kayaks(Fiberglass Sealutions). We are prepared for portages with a set of padded straps but we would like to see if anybody else has ever travel in this park with sea kayaks. Is there any rough rapids? too rough for sea kayak? Anybody with good advice on carrying sea kayak in portage trails, or any other advice on the park is welcome. Thanks Dominique *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Gee, it's nice to come back from a lengthy trip in Glacier Bay (nothing but sunshine, countless whales, lot's of brown bears, unbelievable scenery, thundering glaciers, spectacular icebergs, and whales, whales, whales) and find a nice post to pick at. While I agree with some of Chuck's remarks, I have a few points with which to quibble: Chuck Holst wrote: > > ...SNIP... > > The main reason is that sea kayaks are much harder to portage than > canoes. First, you have to portage two kayaks instead of one canoe. Huh? This assumes a tandem canoe. Some of us paddle solo canoes for the same reasons that we paddle single kayaks. Why would you paddle a single kayak but a tandem canoe? > Second, they are heavier than a good lightweight fiberglass or Kevlar > canoe (my foam core, skin coat, fiberglass Jensen 18 weighs about 52 > pounds; Kevlar versions weigh about 20 pounds less). According to Wenonah's figures, the lightest Jensen 18 weighs 39 pounds, and most lay-ups (including most Kevlar lay-ups) weigh well over 40 pounds. My Wenonah Advantage (a fast, solo cruiser) weighs 50 pounds in "Tough-Weave" with a center rib. This compares with 42 pounds for my favorite sea kayak (a kevlar Caribou; the Caribou is also available in Carbon fiber at a weight of 29 pounds--just don't use it for surfing). > Third, it takes > two people to carry one Sealution versus one person to carry one canoe > for two people. If you think that it takes two people to portage a kayak then you either have the wrong kayak or the wrong portage system. A kayak can be portaged from the center using the same basic approach as a canoe. (I won't bother to explain how this is done, as everyone on the Paddlewise list is smart enough to figure it out on their own.) > Fourth, tight turns and steep hills on some portages > made it more awkward to carry a kayak from the ends than a canoe from > the middle. As for carrying them with one person on either side, forget > it; many portages are too narrow for that. Fifth, many portages are > rocky, rooted, or slippery; when two carry a boat, falls and twisted > ankles are more likely if the people move out of sync, which is likely > on rough ground. See comment above. > Sixth, food and gear must be stowed in small packages > in kayaks versus two or three large packs in a canoe. This means a lot > of time unpacking and repacking on each portage (I don't recommend > carrying a loaded kayak). Ah, at last--a reasonable point. Canoes are much easier to load and unload. They also have other advantages: they can be paddled from a wider variety of positions, and they are aesthetically superior to canoes. But they are not necessarily easier to portage. A lightweight single kayak can be portaged just as easily as a lightweight solo canoe. Perhaps the original poster should consider renting lightweight kayaks rather than lightweight canoes if for some reason they prefer paddling kayaks. If they want to cross over into caneoing, I would recommend that they give solo canoes a try. (Although if they are like most sea kayakers that I have met they will have to improve their paddling skills to handle a solo canoe effectively.) Dan Hagen Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Dan Hagen [mailto:dan_at_hagen.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 11:11 PM To: PaddleWise Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Quetico Provicial Park >While I agree with some of Chuck's remarks, I have a few points >with which to quibble: > >> The main reason is that sea kayaks are much harder to portage than >> canoes. First, you have to portage two kayaks instead of one canoe. > >Huh? This assumes a tandem canoe. Some of us paddle solo canoes for the >same reasons that we paddle single kayaks. Why would you paddle a >single kayak but a tandem canoe? Yes, I did assume a tandem canoe, but even solo canoes can be portaged easier than a Sealution, especially if you want to carry a pack at the same time. My experience with a Sealution kayak, which is what the couple intends to use, is that it cannot be easily portaged by one person. (See below.) As for why a solo kayak but a tandem canoe, a partial answer is that portaging a lightweight tandem canoe is quicker and easier than two solo canoes, since one person can carry gear while the other is carrying the canoe. The fewer the carries, the quicker and easier it is to portage away from the crowds. On Lake Superior, I prefer a solo kayak because it is as much a playboat as a means of transportation, and there are no portages. >> Second, they are heavier than a good lightweight fiberglass or Kevlar >> canoe (my foam core, skin coat, fiberglass Jensen 18 weighs about 52 >> pounds; Kevlar versions weigh about 20 pounds less). > >According to Wenonah's figures, the lightest Jensen 18 weighs 39 pounds, >and most lay-ups (including most Kevlar lay-ups) weigh well over 40 >pounds. My Wenonah Advantage (a fast, solo cruiser) weighs 50 pounds in >"Tough-Weave" with a center rib. This compares with 42 pounds for my >favorite sea kayak (a kevlar Caribou; the Caribou is also available in >Carbon fiber at a weight of 29 pounds--just don't use it for >surfing). I stand corrected on the weight. Also, I think the standard model Sealution is lighter than the one I used to own, which had a special heavy-duty layup. >> Third, it takes >> two people to carry one Sealution versus one person to carry one canoe >> for two people. > >If you think that it takes two people to portage a kayak then you either >have the wrong kayak or the wrong portage system. A kayak can be >portaged from the center using the same basic approach as a canoe. (I >won't bother to explain how this is done, as everyone on the Paddlewise >list is smart enough to figure it out on their own.) <snip> We're talking Sealutions, not just any kayak, and my old Sealution did not balance well for a solo carry, the center of balance being somewhere around the front edge of the cockpit, if not ahead of it. Mine was a 1990 model, and maybe this has changed in the newer models. However, the couple was planning to use slings, probably for a side-by-side carry, rather than portaging their Sealutions individually. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
When going lightweight on small lakes (for myself, Killarney, Temagami and Algonquin areas), I'm partial to sprint kayaks and marathon canoes. I prefer the seaworthiness of the sprint kayak, but also enjoy the ease of packing and of portaging a marathon canoe. Either way, it is a great way to quickly and easily get beyond the crowds and to keep my disks happy on the portages. The only downfall is that it means compact packing, which involves thinking, which I am not too good at. Richard Culpeper www.geocities.com/~culpeper Chuck Holst wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Hagen [mailto:dan_at_hagen.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 11:11 PM > To: PaddleWise > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Quetico Provicial Park > > >While I agree with some of Chuck's remarks, I have a few points > >with which to quibble: > > > >> The main reason is that sea kayaks are much harder to portage than > >> canoes. First, you have to portage two kayaks instead of one canoe. > > > >Huh? This assumes a tandem canoe. Some of us paddle solo canoes for the > >same reasons that we paddle single kayaks. Why would you paddle a > >single kayak but a tandem canoe? > > Yes, I did assume a tandem canoe, but even solo canoes can be portaged > easier than a Sealution, especially if you want to carry a pack at the > same time. My experience with a Sealution kayak, which is what the > couple intends to use, is that it cannot be easily portaged by one > person. (See below.) > > As for why a solo kayak but a tandem canoe, a partial answer is that > portaging a lightweight tandem canoe is quicker and easier than two solo > canoes, since one person can carry gear while the other is carrying the > canoe. The fewer the carries, the quicker and easier it is to portage > away from the crowds. On Lake Superior, I prefer a solo kayak because it > is as much a playboat as a means of transportation, and there are no > portages. > > >> Second, they are heavier than a good lightweight fiberglass or Kevlar > >> canoe (my foam core, skin coat, fiberglass Jensen 18 weighs about 52 > >> pounds; Kevlar versions weigh about 20 pounds less). > > > >According to Wenonah's figures, the lightest Jensen 18 weighs 39 pounds, > >and most lay-ups (including most Kevlar lay-ups) weigh well over 40 > >pounds. My Wenonah Advantage (a fast, solo cruiser) weighs 50 pounds in > >"Tough-Weave" with a center rib. This compares with 42 pounds for my > >favorite sea kayak (a kevlar Caribou; the Caribou is also available in > >Carbon fiber at a weight of 29 pounds--just don't use it for > >surfing). > > I stand corrected on the weight. Also, I think the standard model > Sealution is lighter than the one I used to own, which had a special > heavy-duty layup. > > >> Third, it takes > >> two people to carry one Sealution versus one person to carry one canoe > >> for two people. > > > >If you think that it takes two people to portage a kayak then you either > >have the wrong kayak or the wrong portage system. A kayak can be > >portaged from the center using the same basic approach as a canoe. (I > >won't bother to explain how this is done, as everyone on the Paddlewise > >list is smart enough to figure it out on their own.) > > <snip> > > We're talking Sealutions, not just any kayak, and my old Sealution did > not balance well for a solo carry, the center of balance being somewhere > around the front edge of the cockpit, if not ahead of it. Mine was a > 1990 model, and maybe this has changed in the newer models. However, > the couple was planning to use slings, probably for a side-by-side > carry, rather than portaging their Sealutions individually. > > Chuck Holst > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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