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From: Chuck Holst <CHUCK_at_multitech.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Thermal Stretch Report
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:25:31 -0500
Last year on WaveLength I asked about the new paddling clothing
made out of Malden Mills' Thermal Stretch material, but no one
had any experience with it. Yesterday I wore some for the first
time, so consider this a preliminary report.

Thermal Stretch fabric is intended as a replacement for neoprene
in paddling clothing, so it can be considered a wetsuit material,
though as you will see, it is more versatile. It is made of four-way
stretch Polartec fleece bonded to a rubbery material that
RapidStyle says is waterproof, windproof, and does not
delaminate. Wyoming Wear makes their own version, called
Aquastretch, which has a urethane outer surface that is claimed
to be somewhat breathable. I think the Malden Mills version is
also supposed to be breathable. RapidStyle says the outer
surface is somewhat less abrasion-resistant than neoprene.

Wyoming Wear claims that Aquastretch is thermally equivalent
to 3 mm neoprene, but this must be in air, since I and others find
it cooler than that in water. Norton Johnson, who lives in Two
Harbors, Minnesota, on Lake Superior, reports that he needs a
layer of polypro under his to make it equivalent to 3 mm neoprene.
Malden Mills claims that Thermal Stretch is equivalent in warmth
to 2.5 mm neoprene, which sounds about right.

Wyoming Wear makes a line of Aquastretch clothing that they
sometimes call Splash Gear. Wyoming Wear's line includes a
farmer john wetsuit, long and short paddling pants, a sport bra,
a vest with a turtleneck collar, a short-sleeved turtleneck, a long-
sleeved turtleneck, a paddle jacket with a zip mesh pocket, and
a cap. RapidStyle (http://www.erols.com/rapids/) makes a line
of Thermal Stretch clothing that they call Fuzzy Gear. It is
similar to Wyoming Wear's line, except that they do not make a
farmer john, and their paddle jacket has sealed seams and
neoprene gaskets to keep water out. Also, their sleeveless vest
has a scoop neck, which to me makes more sense on a vest
than a turtleneck. I've been told that the inner layer should fit
snugly, like a neoprene wetsuit, but RapidStyle's paddle jacket
is intended to be worn either by itself or over other clothing, so it
can be looser.

Since Midwest Mountaineering had Splash Gear in stock and on
sale in my size, but not Fuzzy Gear, last Sunday I bought a pair
of the Splash Gear long pants along with the vest, intending to
use the combination as a replacement for my neoprene wet suit.
Last night I wore the combination for the first time while helping
out with a rolling class on Lake Harriet in Minneapolis, during
which I stood in hip-deep water for almost an hour.

The clothing is stretchy and fairly easy to pull on, the fleece is
very comfortable against the skin, and it feels lighter than
neoprene. When I first waded into the lake, my legs felt cool.
Later they felt comfortably warm. However, by then I had
acclimated to the water temperature, which felt warm even on
my bare skin, so I can't say yet how well the material works as
an insulator; it is possible I would have felt much the same in
neoprene. Since it wasn't windy, I was unable to test the
clothing's windproofness, but I have no doubt that it would have
been very effective, since unlike most neoprene wetsuits, there
is no fabric on the outside to trap water and cause evaporative
cooling.

After the class, the outside of the clothing was dry by the time I
had my kayak strapped onto the car, so I decided to drive home
in it. When I took the pants off about thirty minutes later, I was
amazed to discover that it felt dry inside down to the ankles,
which, however, were still soppy. It appears that the fleece retains
very little water, and that the water exits mostly by draining.

Norton says he has a pair of long pants, a vest, and a long-sleeved
jacket, of both Aquastretch and Thermal Stretch, which he mixes
and matches according to conditions. However, with Lake Superior
being so warm this summer (in the mid-60s F.), he is finding the
long pants too warm for paddling and is thinking about getting a
pair of shorts. He usually wears polypro under the clothing. I have
also heard about paddlers who wear their Thermal Stretch on
breaks and while setting up camp, instead of removing it
immediately as they would neoprene. After my brief experience, I
can understand why. I am retiring my neoprene forthwith.

Chuck Holst

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From: <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Thermal Stretch Report
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:50:05 EDT
Just to try to clarify one issue, Chuck, what you are describing as Malden's
"Thermal Stretch" is, I'm pretty sure, their new "Rubberized Thermal Stretch"
material; they still make "Thermal Stretch" --- in an earlier life known as
Polartec 2000S --- and it's good stuff, but for sea kayakers' purposes, the
"Rubberized" stuff is probably even better.  (And the Rubberized Thermal
Stretch is the stuff Dana Chladek is using in her Rapidstyle garments.)

Where Malden billed "Thermal Stretch" as "windproof", "breathable" and "water
repellent", their "Rubberized Thermal Stretch" is "semi-breathable" and
"waterproof", eliminating evaporative cooling.  The jury's out on the
comparative abrasion resistance, but my personal bet is that the straight
"Thermal Stretch" might be a little better.  At various times, both material
have been credited with the thermal insulation of two to three mil neoprene in
the water, but my bet is that the Rubberized stuff will be warmer.

I own a full "jumpsuit" of Polartec 2000S --- maybe five years old.  Works
well as an emergency backup to a drysuit, and, since it breathes better than
the Rubberized version, for my purposes, it's fine.  (I'm not using it to be
comfortable in cold water --- just to survive until I can change my situation
with a wet re-entry and roll, a self rescue, a swim to the beach, or an
assisted rescue.)  But it works.  As a straight replacement for a neoprene
wetsuit, the Rubberized variety is probably much better.

REI, Colorado Kayak and other big shops also offer a variety of garments of
this material, and Dana Chladek (Rapidstyle) may offer a farmer jane/john in
the fall.  Another small company, Lochsa Connection (<www.gorp.com/lochsa>),
offers a farmer jane/john --- as "Otter Skins", along with other pieces ---
but their web site doesn't feature the stuff; gotta get their catalog.  Good
features and a competitive price --- $116 for the john/jane.

Agree with your bottom line, Chuck --- good stuff, lots better than neoprene
for paddling.

Jack
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From: Jim Champoux <jim_at_sigall.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Thermal Stretch Report
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:11:36 -0500
>Where Malden billed "Thermal Stretch" as "windproof", "breathable" and "water
>repellent", their "Rubberized Thermal Stretch" is "semi-breathable" and
>"waterproof", eliminating evaporative cooling.  The jury's out on the
>comparative abrasion resistance, but my personal bet is that the straight
>"Thermal Stretch" might be a little better.  At various times, both material
>have been credited with the thermal insulation of two to three mil neoprene in
>the water, but my bet is that the Rubberized stuff will be warmer.
>
>I own a full "jumpsuit" of Polartec 2000S --- maybe five years old.  Works
>well as an emergency backup

is this stuff the "first layer" fabric or is it used over polypro?


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From: Chuck Holst <CHUCK_at_multitech.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Thermal Stretch Report
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:15:47 -0500
 -----Original Message-----
From: JCMARTIN43 [mailto:JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 2:54 PM
To: paddlewise
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Thermal Stretch Report


Just to try to clarify one issue, Chuck, what you are describing as   Malden's
"Thermal Stretch" is, I'm pretty sure, their new "Rubberized Thermal   Stretch"
material; they still make "Thermal Stretch" --- in an earlier life known   as
Polartec 2000S --- and it's good stuff, but for sea kayakers' purposes,   the
"Rubberized" stuff is probably even better.  (And the Rubberized Thermal
Stretch is the stuff Dana Chladek is using in her Rapidstyle garments.)

<snip>

Agree with your bottom line, Chuck --- good stuff, lots better than   neoprene
for paddling.

Jack

**************************************************************************  *

Thanks, Jack. I got the Thermal Stretch name from the RapidStyle Web   site;
I was unable to find a URL for either Malden Mills or Wyoming Wear. I do
like the RapidStyle designs better than the Wyoming Wear, and am thinking   
of ordering their paddle jacket -- but not till I have put the present
garments through a week-long paddling and camping test.

Chuck  
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