I've paddled many different whitewater boats and altho they look similar...... some are easier to roll than others. Can anyone tell me what design feature makes one boat easier to roll, than another? Thanks! Surfbuff *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Sep 24, 1998 at 11:33:01AM -0300, SurfBuff wrote: > I've paddled many different whitewater boats and altho they look > similar...... some are easier to roll than others. Can anyone tell > me what design feature makes one boat easier to roll, than another? Sharp edges (e.g. slalom boats, some squirt boats) make boats harder to roll. Boats with soft edges (e.g. Dagger Crossfire) as easier to roll. Boats with pronounced peaks in the deck/hull are harder to roll; boats with gently rounded decks/hulls are easier. Boats with high cockpit rims are harder to roll (makes it more difficult to get into the right position). Boats with nice low cockpit sides enable the paddler to tuck up tightly. The general thread that runs through this is that boats which approximate a cylinder are easy to roll, and the more a boat departs from that shape, the harder it is to roll. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Boats with round hulls and pronounce flasres on the sides \___/ are very easy to roll. The strong secondary stability of that configuration helps the boat to get upright once the paddler has passed the initial 90 degrees of the roll. You see many people about to complete a roll, but falling back on the water. That is caused by medium to low secondary stability. White water boats, usually have good side flares due to their elliptical cross section. - Julio > > The general thread that runs through this is that boats which > approximate a cylinder are easy to roll, and the more a boat > departs from that shape, the harder it is to roll. > > ---Rsk > Rich Kulawiec > rsk_at_gsp.org > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Julio MacWilliams wrote: > > Boats with round hulls and pronounce flasres on the sides > \___/ > are very easy to roll. The strong secondary stability of that configuration > helps the boat to get upright once the paddler has passed the initial > 90 degrees of the roll. > I experienced this recently with a friend's Perception Acadia. Once it's past 90 degrees, you can't help but come upright. Steve -- Test Scoring & Reporting Services Sometimes, you never can University of Georgia always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593 least expect the most. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
May I assume that there is a corollary to the observations below: The more a boat approximates a cylinder, the more difficult it is to keep upright? tdittrich > -----Original Message----- > From: Rich Kulawiec [SMTP:rsk_at_gsp.org] > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 12:04 PM > To: SurfBuff; ' > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] ROLLABILITY > > On Thu, Sep 24, 1998 at 11:33:01AM -0300, SurfBuff wrote: > > I've paddled many different whitewater boats and altho they look > > similar...... some are easier to roll than others. Can anyone tell > > me what design feature makes one boat easier to roll, than another? > > Sharp edges (e.g. slalom boats, some squirt boats) make boats > harder to roll. Boats with soft edges (e.g. Dagger Crossfire) > as easier to roll. > > Boats with pronounced peaks in the deck/hull are harder to roll; > boats with gently rounded decks/hulls are easier. > > Boats with high cockpit rims are harder to roll (makes it more > difficult to get into the right position). Boats with nice > low cockpit sides enable the paddler to tuck up tightly. > > The general thread that runs through this is that boats which > approximate a cylinder are easy to roll, and the more a boat > departs from that shape, the harder it is to roll. > > ---Rsk > Rich Kulawiec > rsk_at_gsp.org > ********************************************************************** > ***** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > ********************************************************************** > ***** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] ROLLABILITY May I assume that there is a corollary to the observations below: The more a boat approximates a cylinder, the more difficult it is to keep upright? tdittrich That assumes that upright refers to the horizon and not the water surface. When the water surface is significantly "tilted" the easier the "tippy" boat is to keep upright, relative to the horizon. cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/24/98 11:00:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, juliom_at_cisco.com writes: << You see many people about to complete a roll, but falling back on the water. That is caused by medium to low secondary stability. >> Well, while I think the shape of the chine may have some influence on the roll, I believe that the very vast majority of folks who almost make it up and then fail, do so because they are trying to bring their heads up too soon. Sorry to nit pick. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of KiAyker_at_aol.com Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 7:26 AM To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] ROLLABILITY In a message dated 9/24/98 11:00:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, juliom_at_cisco.com writes: << You see many people about to complete a roll, but falling back on the water. That is caused by medium to low secondary stability. >> << Well, while I think the shape of the chine may have some influence on the roll, I believe that the very vast majority of folks who almost make it up and then fail, do so because they are trying to bring their heads up too soon. Sorry to nit pick.>> Scott So.Cal. I agree Scott. I'd certainly add a diving paddle to the equation too. I've seen many people fail at that last moment and most of the time their head is in the wrong position AND their paddle is vertical. The paddle is useful for that last little bit of support. BTW, my roll has, of course, failed me for the same reason too. I ain't too proud ;-) I don' think you're "nit picking" really. We should all be able to put our two-cent's worth in there from time to time. You never know when you might say something that helps a beginner who's reading these postings. I'm guessing that there are quite a few lurkers out there who pick up little tidbits from postings like yours. Keep on nit picking man. Cheers, Dave *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Since we are there, then I will add is that the first thing that happens when a beginners learn to use the weight of their head properly is that their roll gets so strong that they fall to the other side. In the Greenland kayak competition they get to roll with their arms crossed, just by using their head and hip flick. I am under the impression that those who have their head full of lead have an advantage when it comes to roll a kayak; they tend to breath in the water though... :-) - Julio > > << Well, while I think the shape of the chine may have some influence on > the > roll, I believe that the very vast majority of folks who almost make it up > and > then fail, do so because they are trying to bring their heads up too soon. > Sorry to nit pick.>> > > Scott > So.Cal. > > I agree Scott. I'd certainly add a diving paddle to the equation too. I've > seen many people fail at that last moment and most of the time their head is > in the wrong position AND their paddle is vertical. The paddle is useful > for that last little bit of support. BTW, my roll has, of course, failed me > for the same reason too. I ain't too proud ;-) > > I don' think you're "nit picking" really. We should all be able to put our > two-cent's worth in there from time to time. You never know when you might > say something that helps a beginner who's reading these postings. I'm > guessing that there are quite a few lurkers out there who pick up little > tidbits from postings like yours. Keep on nit picking man. > > Cheers, > Dave > > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/24/98 11:31:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, TDittrich_at_HomeATM.com writes: << May I assume that there is a corollary to the observations below: The more a boat approximates a cylinder, the more difficult it is to keep upright? >> Not necessarily. In flat calm water that would probably be correct. But when you add waves to the equation then a more rounded hull that will roll in accordance with the paddlers efforts to keep it up right, as opposed to a flatter hull which will follow the angle of the wave, will actually be more stable. At least to an experiance paddler. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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