RE: [Paddlewise] How many backups?

It appeared that one of the respondents you attached to your message was
talking about an "outrigger" set up for diving. I am not sure what type of
kayak he was talking about, but I know that many of the ones divers use are
set up more like canoes (fairly wide and no interior - i.e. sit on top) so
they don't tend to roll well due to their width. The main use of the
outrigger is to ease re-entry, and yes they are very dependent on the
equipment - i.e. often the outrigger actually attaches with hardware (pins,
hinges etc.) but it is a suitable type of re-entry for that type of boat.
With the weird weight distribution (and poor range of motion once in the
cockpit)one has with scuba tanks on their back, rolling may be
"challenging" at best, and a lot of people like to wait until they're "on
board" before they remove them. I have seen them use the outriggers in a
manner similar to a swim step on a motor boat. This, of course, doesn't
even begin to address the issue of "solo" diving. While we all tend to get
pretty psyched up on rolling being the "right" self rescue tool, I think we
tend to forget that it is really dependent on boat design and stability (I
have yet to see a good roll (paddlefloat or otherwise) used for righting a
Zodiac or a sailboat). Some of the boats that are called kayaks have a lot
more in common with other boats than we with the boats that we tend to
think of when we hear the word kayak.

-Saul

At 11:34 AM 10/23/98 -0700, Mattson, Timothy G wrote:
>
>I don't understand this talk of rigging an outrigger for solo rentry
>techniques.  If you depend on a particular rigging on a kayak, what happens
>when you switch to a different boat?  In short, if you depend on a boat
>being setup to support your outrigger, you are screwed when you switch
>boats.
>
>This situation bit me once.  I was paddling in a boat that had a rounded
>deck behind the cockpit.  I was practicing solo rentry techniques and
>couldn't stabilize "the outrigger".  As hard as I tried, I couldn't get into
>my boat. Finally, I had to resort to an assisted rentry.
>
>The solution?  A paddlefloat re-entry roll.  This works even if you can't
>roll.  The key is to practice getting into the boat upside down and then
>easilly rolling back up.  The technique is much easier then the
>"traditional" paddlefloat re-entry techniques.  It has the further advantage
>of working in realy rough water --- something I question for the
>traditional, outrigger technique.   
>
>In fact, The re-entry roll is so much more dependable than the traditional
>"outrigger technique" that I think it is irresponsible to teach the
>outrigger technique.   I can think of no situation -- even with complete
>beginners -- where the outrigger paddlefloat re-entry is preferable to the
>re-entry roll.  
>
>So my advice is skip all this worry about how to rig a kayak to support the
>outrigger.  The re-entry roll feels weird at first, but once you practice
>entering the boat upside down a couple times, the re-entry roll will work
>every time.  
>
>--Tim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: R. Walker
>To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
>Sent: 10/23/98 10:13 AM
>Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How many backups?
>
>> The reason I ask about this is that the techniques seem that they
>would
>> have  a low probability of success in rough conditions due to the very
>> tippy behavior of the kayaks when you're up on the rear deck without
>extra
>> "outrigger" bouyancy.  Are these useful in real conditions?
>
>You might consider how to rig a more reliable outrigger system for 
>precisely this purpose.  In fact, tomorrow, I intend to spend some 
>time practicing precisely this in relatively open water, though 
>probably rather light winds.  Seeing as one of the things I want to 
>do from my kayak is open water diving, I think I need to get some 
>open water practice.   I have an outrigger system for my 'yak; but 
>its never been tested.   I'll certainly be bringing tools tomorrow!!
>
>I *THINK* the cowboy reentry with outrigger should be the easiest, 
>but I'll know by tomorrow evening.  This isn't a paddlefloat outrigger, 
>thats for emergencies; but rather a fixed mount with a 4' poll and 
>solid foam float on a single side.  The idea being to stay low and 
>lean over to the side with the float...
>
>
>
>Richard Walker
>Houston, TX
>http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html
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