Jerry Foodman wrote: John, I know that you also have an Express and have had a Mariner II. Wouldn't you agree that for travelling in the wind and waves of moderately rough conditions, especially down weather, you could do so faster, or more efficiently, in the Express than the Coaster, and even more so in the II? The longer the boat the quicker you will pick up a wind wave and the longer you can stay on it. You will also require less control effort, either leans or paddle moves, in the longer boat. Unless, of course, you are playing in the confusion of tide rips or rock gardens, when the Coaster outshines the others... In response, Yes, I believe I could go a bit faster in the longer boats, but if it's downwind in rough seas, for me the Coaster requires less effort because the shorter boat corrects more easily. This may just be a style preference. I've noticed that longer, stiffer tracking boats do hold their course better, but once they deviate, they are more difficult to bring back on course (because of their stiff tracking). There obviously is a happy medium to look for. Designers have to be careful not too make a short sea kayak too loose or with too much rocker. But my point is that hull speed is often overrated compared to other factors. If one boat cruises easily at 4.5 knots and another at 5 knots, but you generally paddle at 4 knots, then either boat has sufficient hull speed. My style preference is for a playful boat that doesn't need a rudder. None of the Mariner kayaks you mentioned need rudders, but they do require skill at edging (leaning) to hold & correct course and the longer the boat the more there is to control...or something like that! On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with a quiver of kayaks, each for it's own purpose. John Lull *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
John Lull wrote: >Yes, I believe I could go a bit faster in the longer boats, but if it's downwind in rough >seas, for me the Coaster requires less effort because the shorter boat corrects more >easily. This may just be a style preference. I've noticed that longer, stiffer tracking >boats do hold their course better, but once they deviate, they are more difficult to bring >back on course (because of their stiff tracking). If you remember, John, you taught me how to use the Coaster in the tide rips off Yellow Bluff about 6 years ago. One of the best lessons I ever had. But I never quite mastered downwind control with the Coaster. I was always being knocked off course then correcting. Yes, correcting was easy, but I was always busy doing it. The longer Express is far easier for me to hold course with, and surf; I prefer it. I also briefly tried the Mariner II and I think that I would prefer that even more, and for the same reason. >But my point is that hull speed is often overrated compared to other factors. If one boat >cruises easily at 4.5 knots and another at 5 knots, but you generally paddle at 4 knots, >then either boat has sufficient hull speed. Agree. I cruise between 3.75 and 4 knots. Doesn't make any difference to me what the hull speed is. >My style preference is for a playful boat that doesn't need a rudder. None of the Mariner >kayaks you mentioned need rudders, but they do require skill at edging (leaning) to >hold & correct course and the longer the! > boat the more there is to control...or something like that! > But for me, the longer the boat the less frequently I have to do any control at all. (The boat can't be too long or uncontrollable.) I have no intention of entering rock gardens. Too scary. Travelling is easier for me, and more relaxing in a longer boat. Thanks for your insights. Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Gerald Foodman wrote: > > John Lull wrote: > >Yes, I believe I could go a bit faster in the longer boats, [snip] > > If you remember, John, you taught me how to use the Coaster in the tide rips > off Yellow Bluff about 6 years ago. Great dialog, all you guys (Jerry, John, John, Dan, et. al.) -- very interesting discussion of yak performance, and well worth reading for the rest of us. And, done in great (nonflaming) style. Keep it up! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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