Hi fellow paddlers Has any of you experimented with (elvstrom-)-bailers in the bottom of your kayaks? I've been asking various sailors, if they thought it would work for kayaks and I've been getting very mixed answers. Some says that I wouldn't be able to sail sufficiently fast for the bailer to work, whereas other claims that it also works for low speed. Quoting from http://sailing.org/int505/imghull.htm: "You can see two Elvstrom bailers. The larger bailer is further aft, where water collects when the boat is planing. The smaller bailer is forward, where water collects when the boat is not planing.". So apparently it does work "when the boat is not planing", which could mean anything from 1kmh - 30kmh? best regards Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Peter Joachim Unold wrote: > Has any of you experimented with (elvstrom-)-bailers in the bottom of > your kayaks? I've been asking various sailors, if they thought it would > work for kayaks and I've been getting very mixed answers. Some says > that I wouldn't be able to sail sufficiently fast for the bailer to work, > whereas other claims that it also works for low speed. I've got self bailers in a couple of my racing canoes. They are basically a stainless steel trapdoor that drops down through the hull. When it's not open it's flush with the hull, to deploy it you push down on it, the lead edge is hinged, the sides are closed and the back of the bailer has a panel that gets "sucked" open when paddling forward. You don't have to go all that fast to get it to work. It works quite well and is easy to open and close, in a canoe. From a kayak there is that pesky spray skirt in the way. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Kirk wrote; (SNIP) > >I've got self bailers in a couple of my racing canoes. They are basically a >stainless steel trapdoor that drops down through the hull. When it's not >open it's flush with the hull, to deploy it you push down on it, the lead >edge is hinged, the sides are closed and the back of the bailer has a panel >that gets "sucked" open when paddling forward. You don't have to go all that >fast to get it to work. In my experience with both sailboats and canoes the smaller the bailer the better it works (I.e. works at lower speeds). Another important factor can be the placement of the bailer. They work best where the velocity is greatest. Normally this means at or slightly forward of the longitudinal center of buoyancy. Keep in mind that they also work best when the speed is nearly constant. This means that a long slow stroke with considerable speed differential between maximum and minimum will be less effective than quicker strokes with a more constant speed. (called a low "Check factor" by rowers). There is a bailer that I have not tried sold by Sea Sure (Fig 19-90) that supposedly works at very low speeds. I hope to try one next year when it is warmer. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hi kayakers Thanks for the (positive) answers regarding self-bailers. I'll check prizes and builtin cost when spring arrives. One thing I still wonder about however, how come we're not all sailing around with such a self-bailer? It appears to me, that this is the perfect way to empty a kayak. Apart from food operated pumps(and some fancy electric pumps), the rest of the pumps require one or two hands for operation. Now the only moment most experienced kayakers would need a pump, is under rough conditions where the not-so-bombproof-roll failed, and a reentry/roll was necessary - this is a situation where you'd want both hands on the paddle. As for the food-pumps - I've never tried one - but I guess that using own leg to pump, is not excactly making it easier to stay in balance. Apart from that, a food-pump is more 'hi-tech' than a bailer, and I guess we all like low-tech impossible-to-break equipment. Any comments? best regards Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/25/1998 4:06:03 PM EST, pjunold_at_daimi.au.dk writes: << how come we're not all sailing around with such a self-bailer? It appears to me, that this is the perfect way to empty a kayak. >> A self bailer is, among other things, a "hole in the hull" of a boat. One thing all holes in hulls have in common, they let water IN as well as let water OUT.. Even when closed, they leak water INTO the hull thus creating job security for themselves. Maybe not when new, but sooner (or if you are lucky) later they begin to leak. They also create drag, a small amount, but drag none the less. All in all, they are a pain unless like specified on racing hulls, they serve a specific purpose. Any shipfitter will tell you that where "things" go thru hulls below the waterline, problems arise. Most self bailers I have seen for low speed boats consisted of a little scoop like thing in reverse that pivoted on a hinge pin. Let this thing come apart and see how fast your boat fills up with water through that 1" X 2" hole.! Don't get me wrong, nothing is better than a dry bilge on any boat, but to cut a hole in the bottom of my kayak to let the water out? I don't think so! I'll take a break and pump it out or sponge it out rather than cut a "hole in the hull". And remember! The Titanic was an unsinkable boat with a "hole in the hull" below the waterline! John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-10-25 17:00:00 EST, pjunold_at_daimi.au.dk writes: << << how come we're not all sailing around with such a self-bailer? It appears to me, that this is the perfect way to empty a kayak. >> >> As a sometime sea-kayaker I like the idea but having used a self-bailer extensively in canoe racing here in the midwest, I have noticed a couple of problems: 1) Their operation tends to get a bit rough from grit buildup. So rough that one must really lift a leg and nearly stomp on the darn things. Something hard to do in a tight cockpit. 2) If the bailer is in the down (bailing) position and you hit a rock, log, whatever, it is very likely to become damaged enough that it can not be retracted. I have even seen bailers pulled completely out of boats. Now what holds true for a 30 lb kevlar racing canoe may not be the case for an expedition-built kayak, but when I am sea-kayaking rather than canoeing 30 ft from a riverbank I tend to like more fail-safe equipment. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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