To retain the cockpit cover, my dealer added a small loop of bungee and nylon clip to the leading edge of the cover. I then simply hook the cover's nylon hook (no scratching with the nylon) to the forward deck bungees on my boat. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Along the thread of having the boats fly off the roof, I have had a cockpit cover take flight while crusing along the interstate. I know they improve the gas mileage and keep out the elements but how do you keep them from trying to join the southerly migration of Canada Geese as you cruise along? > I just use a carbiner and secure the loop on my cover to the forward bungees. It hasn't come loose yet but if it does it should just flap along in the breeze. I suppose I could put some Canadian Ballast Rocks on them but then I'd have to strap each rock to my front and rear bumper and eventually would obscure the view out the windshield with tie-downs. > While Canadian Ballast Rocks solve a multitude of problems, in this case I think they'd cause more problems than solving. If you were to secure them fore & aft they are still likely to come loose and cause dents and scratches on your grill and hood as they flop around, to say nothing of the potential for shattering your wind shield. IMHO this would be almost as bad as disgusting bug splats. Putting them on top of the cover to hold it down would not be a particularily good idea either. The added weight would make you slow down to the point where you couldn't zoom over railroad tracks and road kill at super high speeds. The Canadian Ballast Rocks are notorious for bouncing straight up in the air under such conditions and, on their return to earth, may cause severe damage to the bottom of the kayak and your roof top. This could cause you a migraine which can be a real pain. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/30/98 8:18:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, millsl_at_purchase.edu writes: << Along the thread of having the boats fly off the roof, I have had a cockpit cover take flight while cruising along the interstate. I know they improve the gas mileage and keep out the elements but how do you keep them from trying to join the southerly migration of Canada Geese as you cruise along? I suppose I could put some Canadian Ballast Rocks on them but then I'd have to strap each rock to my front and rear bumper and eventually would obscure the view out the windshield with tie-downs. >> I've had that problem too (during the huge winds of the early January storm in Northern California several years ago). I had attached the loop on my cockpit cover to the deck lines, so I didn't lose it. I also had my air bad (bladder) blow out one time on the interstate, when I was almost home. I had driven nearly 6 hours from Ahjumawi east of Redding in Northern California, and it took that long to work its way out. I just happened to see it blow out of my rear view mirror, and land nicely on the side of the freeway. So I stopped, walked back, and retrieved it, no worse for the wear. BijiliE *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Following the departing cockpit cover thread, try the Palm neoprene cockpit cover. A little pricier than others, but it's tight, solid and crosswind proof. (Also not that easy to get the bloody thing on, but when it's on, it stays on!) Also stays tight as a drum, and keeps virutally all the water out of a boat in heavy rains. Caution note: in very heavy or sustained rains, you can pick up enough rainwater in a cockpit to collapse your rack --- not to get back on that subject! --- and even your roof. Only saw it happen once, but two large cockpit sea kayaks on top of (I think it was a) Toyota Corolla managed to buckle the roof columns. With lesser amounts of water, you can develop hydraulic rams which, when the car stops quickly, can blow out your forward bulkhead --- or, in non-bulkheaded boats, the bow! So cockpit covers are not just for fuel economy or to keep the critters out. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: > Caution note: in very heavy or sustained rains, you can pick up enough > rainwater in a cockpit to collapse your rack --- not to get back on that > subject! --- and even your roof. Only saw it happen once, but two large > cockpit sea kayaks on top of (I think it was a) Toyota Corolla managed to > buckle the roof columns. With lesser amounts of water, you can develop > hydraulic rams which, when the car stops quickly, can blow out your forward > bulkhead --- or, in non-bulkheaded boats, the bow! Amen, on the amount of water. I once left on my roofrack a double Klepper without its spray cover. It was on the car overnight during a torrential rainstorm. When I went out the next morning, the car which was on an inclined driveway alongside a friend's house was down on its back springs as if I were carrying a load of concrete. I tried climbing up to pump water but it was taking too much time. Luckily the guy we were staying with was built like Burl Ives and just took the boat off the roof, water and all, spilling a lot of the water out as he did. No damage to the car, rack or boat but I have heard of Klepper breaking frame parts when a swamped one is hauled on to a large motor boat. ralph diaz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> Caution note: in very heavy or sustained rains, you can pick up enough > rainwater in a cockpit to collapse your rack I've heard that fallacy too. Over enough days maybe but taking 6" of rain over night on a single, that's about 2" of water in the cockpit. Remember the opening is a lot smaller than the floor area of a standard (not folding) kayak. I would expect to be able to sit in my cockpit in my kayak on the roof without the kayak, the rack or the car suffering. If not something is built a bit light. Two more kayaks (3 all together on the rack) would just about equal my weight. I've carried 3 kayaks and a friend is trying to figure getting 5 on her rack for along trip. Does that put a couple of gallons of water into perspective? If the rain gets much heavier over night you'll be wanting to be in the kayak because of the flooding and you'll be able to paddle round the car. Seal-launch off the rack :-) > cockpit sea kayaks on top of (I think it was a) Toyota Corolla managed to > buckle the roof columns. Rust? Prone to that. Plus very large cockpits? > With lesser amounts of water, you can develop > hydraulic rams which, when the car stops quickly, can blow out your forward > bulkhead --- or, in non-bulkheaded boats, the bow! >From one NZ manufacturer (so he said), they get two sumo wrestlers, one at each end and tip the kayak back and forth. If the bulkheads survive that model is accepted for import to Japan - his were. Alex -- ---------------------------------------------------- Alex Ferguson a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz Electronics Workshop, Chem Dept, Univ of Canterbury Christchurch, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Maybe somebody can tell me why I shouldn't be doing this, but I simply avoid the whole issue by carrying my kayaks mounted upside down - the wet side towards the water. They don't look as cool as if they were in the cradles right side up, but I'm not really all that "cool" of a guy - lean a bit more towards the "practical" end of the personality spectrum<g>. Seriously though - am I possibly causing damage? I adjusted the cradles so that they provide the maximum amount of surface mating (leave it alone<g>) area. My kayak practically lives on top of my Cherokee (with bow & stern lines tied down) and in a rainforest area like this we tend to get just a bit of rain.... Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska > > Caution note: in very heavy or sustained rains, you can > pick up enough > > rainwater in a cockpit to collapse your rack > > I've heard that fallacy too. Over enough days maybe but > taking 6" of rain over night on a single, that's about 2" of > water in the cockpit. Remember the opening is a lot smaller > than the floor area of a standard (not folding) kayak. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
David Seng wrote: > > Maybe somebody can tell me why I shouldn't be doing this, but I simply > avoid the whole issue by carrying my kayaks mounted upside down - the > wet side towards the water. Canoeists do this all the time. > They don't look as cool as if they were in > the cradles right side up, but I'm not really all that "cool" of a guy - > lean a bit more towards the "practical" end of the personality > spectrum<g>. I always thought they looked dumb sitting open side up. Mind you, quite often cool & dumb seem to go together. Just watch teenagers! :-) If carried open side down they don't need a cover to keep rain out. Bird droppings collect on the bottom instead of the deck & get washed off next time you launch. -- Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Lloyd Bowles wrote: > > David Seng wrote: > > > > Maybe somebody can tell me why I shouldn't be doing this, but I simply > > avoid the whole issue by carrying my kayaks mounted upside down - the > > wet side towards the water. > > Canoeists do this all the time. Some one correct me if I am wrong, but I have been given to understand that on non-plastic hardshell kayaks, the hulls are much stronger than the decks. If you place such a kayak upside down, you are pressing the whole boat very heavily down on its weakest surface and therefore raising the potential for damaging your boat. I know that some people carry folding kayaks upside down but I would not recommend it. In all folding kayaks, the framework at the keel is stronger than the framework at the deck. People who mount a Klepper upside down are rest the entire boat on its deck bar which is thinner and less structured than the keel portion. Same with Folbots, Nautiraids, Feathercrafts where the keel bars are generally thicker (or doubled up) than the top bar. Of course, the strongest part of the boat is its side and is probably the preferable way of carrying a kayak. ralph diaz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The current issue of Canoe & Kayak, the annual buyer's guide issue, has a section on "winterizing" your boats. This includes along with some good repair and cleaning tips, some suggestions on storage that I believe point out some things you would also want to take into account when car-topping. Ralph has echoed some of these tips below, that I believe were in this article. Regards, Chris Bush rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > Lloyd Bowles wrote: > > > > David Seng wrote: > > > > > > Maybe somebody can tell me why I shouldn't be doing this, but I simply > > > avoid the whole issue by carrying my kayaks mounted upside down - the > > > wet side towards the water. > > > > Canoeists do this all the time. > > Some one correct me if I am wrong, but I have been given to understand > that on non-plastic hardshell kayaks, the hulls are much stronger than > the decks. If you place such a kayak upside down, you are pressing the > whole boat very heavily down on its weakest surface and therefore > raising the potential for damaging your boat. > > I know that some people carry folding kayaks upside down but I would not > recommend it. In all folding kayaks, the framework at the keel is > stronger than the framework at the deck. People who mount a Klepper > upside down are rest the entire boat on its deck bar which is thinner > and less structured than the keel portion. Same with Folbots, > Nautiraids, Feathercrafts where the keel bars are generally thicker (or > doubled up) than the top bar. > > Of course, the strongest part of the boat is its side and is probably > the preferable way of carrying a kayak. > > ralph diaz > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter > PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 > Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com > "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
t 11:45 AM 12/1/98 -0900, David Seng wrote: >Maybe somebody can tell me why I shouldn't be doing this, but I simply >avoid the whole issue by carrying my kayaks mounted upside down... Some kayaks are built so lightly on the top deck - i.e. 1 or 2 layers of glass that they can't handle their own weight when upside down very well - I have two like that, the others you can mount any way you want. Several other posts talked about standing water. I have actually peeled a rack loose (back in the days when I only tied the ends of one of the boats to the bumpers, instead of all of them). I had 4 large sea kayaks (one was a triple without a forward bulkhead) with big cockpits mounted on my roof rack. They stuck out about 5-7 feet ahead of the forward rack (Small roof and the boats were all between 17 and 21 feet long), I had left them on the roof after a Sunday return because I was going paddling again on Wednesday. It rained hard Sunday through Tuesday, and on Tuesday afternoon I had to brake hard from 45 mph and I ended up with significant but fairly minor damage. The one boat that was tied to the bumper kept things from flying off completely, but the sheet metal on the gutter actually ripped and the boats hit the hood hard enough to crease it in several spots. there was about 1.5-2 inches of water in each cockpit and the damage came from the weight of the water hitting the end of the cockpit at 45mph when I stopped. So yes, out here in the rainy side of the US we do have to at least think about keeping water out of our boats. -Saul At 11:45 AM 12/1/98 -0900, David Seng wrote: >Maybe somebody can tell me why I shouldn't be doing this, but I simply >avoid the whole issue by carrying my kayaks mounted upside down - the >wet side towards the water. They don't look as cool as if they were in >the cradles right side up, but I'm not really all that "cool" of a guy - >lean a bit more towards the "practical" end of the personality >spectrum<g>. Seriously though - am I possibly causing damage? I >adjusted the cradles so that they provide the maximum amount of surface >mating (leave it alone<g>) area. My kayak practically lives on top of >my Cherokee (with bow & stern lines tied down) and in a rainforest area >like this we tend to get just a bit of rain.... > >Dave Seng >Juneau, Alaska > >> > Caution note: in very heavy or sustained rains, you can >> pick up enough >> > rainwater in a cockpit to collapse your rack >> >> I've heard that fallacy too. Over enough days maybe but >> taking 6" of rain over night on a single, that's about 2" of >> water in the cockpit. Remember the opening is a lot smaller >> than the floor area of a standard (not folding) kayak. >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Alex Ferguson wrote: > > > Caution note: in very heavy or sustained rains, you can pick up enough > > rainwater in a cockpit to collapse your rack > > I've heard that fallacy too. Over enough days maybe but > taking 6" of rain over night on a single, that's about 2" of > water in the cockpit. Remember the opening is a lot smaller > than the floor area of a standard (not folding) kayak. > > I would expect to be able to sit in my cockpit in my kayak on > the roof without the kayak, the rack or the car suffering. If not > something is built a bit light. Two more kayaks (3 all > together on the rack) would just about equal my weight. I've > carried 3 kayaks and a friend is trying to figure getting 5 on > her rack for along trip. Does that put a couple of gallons of > water into perspective? [snip] you must be pretty small ;-) if i sat in my kayak on the roof, believe me there would be no reason to think the roof _wouldn't_ collapse!! yakima says about 100-150lbs rating [45-70kg] for it's roof racks, i'm darn near double that!! well, the first number anyhow ;-) i've had it rain here [colorado, usa] hard enough overnight, that it took two of us just to roll the boat over on its side, that's only 11 gallons, 100lbs... mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com----http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark ---- # mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/paddler [index to club websites i administer] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page -- Fortune: "In a world without fences, who needs 'Gates'" -- Scott McNealy "In a world without walls, who needs 'Windows'" -- Dave Livigni *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Cool is the operative word. I have a guy who loads 30 kayaks on a trailer and they all have to be arranged perfectly by length color, etc. and of course with cockpit covers. He would quit if I made him carry them upside down. No sense squashing a sense of pride whether its one or 30 boats. Steve Freund President QCC Kayaks P.O. Box 234 Janesville, WI 53547 (888) 794-3887 http://www.qualitycomposites.com -----Original Message----- From: David Seng [SMTP:David_at_wainet.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 2:45 PM To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Cockpit Covers Maybe somebody can tell me why I shouldn't be doing this, but I simply avoid the whole issue by carrying my kayaks mounted upside down - the wet side towards the water. They don't look as cool as if they were in the cradles right side up, but I'm not really all that "cool" of a guy - lean a bit more towards the "practical" end of the personality spectrum<g>. Seriously though - am I possibly causing damage? I adjusted the cradles so that they provide the maximum amount of surface mating (leave it alone<g>) area. My kayak practically lives on top of my Cherokee (with bow & stern lines tied down) and in a rainforest area like this we tend to get just a bit of rain.... Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska > > Caution note: in very heavy or sustained rains, you can > pick up enough > > rainwater in a cockpit to collapse your rack > > I've heard that fallacy too. Over enough days maybe but > taking 6" of rain over night on a single, that's about 2" of > water in the cockpit. Remember the opening is a lot smaller > than the floor area of a standard (not folding) kayak. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Lloyd wrote; Re: carrying kayaks upside down. >If carried open side down they don't need a cover to keep rain out. Bird >droppings collect on the bottom instead of the deck & get washed off >next time you launch. Absolutely. Also there is less drag so you get better mileage (good if you care about the environment etc.) and the boat blows around less when the trucks pass. You save money on the cockpit cover. Most people find it easier to load the boat upside down (Just pick it up at the cockpit and flip it over and on). You also don't need those expensive hull shaped racks and can use the cheaper foam blocks that slip over the racks. One last reason. It starts conversation. People ask me why I carry mine upside down when most carry theirs right side up. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/1/98 4:10:40 PM EST, David_at_wainet.com writes: << I simply avoid the whole issue by carrying my kayaks mounted upside down -- the wet side towards the water. They don't look as cool as if they were in >> It is in fact better for the kayak and on long trips say from Washington to California I use that method. The only reason I do not use it all the time is that it is a pain to get on and off of the van or explorer. The seam on a fiberglass kayak is its strongest point according to Mat Brose of Mariner Kayak. A Mariner boat, with it fat deck, when upside down on the saddles is resting mostly on the seams. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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