Today I saw a message from Paddlewise forwarded to CPAkayaker. DID YOU GET THE AUTHOR'S PERMISSION TO DO SO ? If it is really an interesting subject for someone outside of the list, it might be alright to forward _all_the_postings_in_the_discussion_ with _previous_author's_consent_. But forwarding someone's postings outside of the list is not only unethical, but might create a lot of confusion and trouble. Our discussions are valuable because we can express our opinions freely in this limited group, and allow ourselves to be cricized, corrected, or get additional input and learn even more about the subject about which the opinion was expressed. A posting, without the rest of the discussion is out of context. It is likely to offend someone outside of the list, and embarrass the author of the posting, to say the least. Please do not forward any postings outside of CPAkayaker, of Paddlewise, without the author's previous consent. - Julio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Julio MacWilliams wrote: > Today I saw a message from Paddlewise forwarded to CPAkayaker. > > DID YOU GET THE AUTHOR'S PERMISSION TO DO SO ? > > If it is really an interesting subject for someone outside of the > list, it might be alright to forward _all_the_postings_in_the_discussion_ > with _previous_author's_consent_. But forwarding someone's postings > outside of the list is not only unethical, but might create a lot > of confusion and trouble. < snip > I'm curious what others think about this "netiquette" rule. I had always thought it was not appropriate to forward individual email to a list without permission, but I haven't heard objections before to things going from one list to another. Emails go back and forth between CPAKayaker, NYCKayaker, and Paddlewise with some regularity. >From my perspective, once I've posted something to a list I have no idea who got it anyway, so I don't think I'd mind it being forwarded to another list. What do others think? Joy Hecht Arlington VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Joy E. Hecht wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Julio MacWilliams wrote: > > > Today I saw a message from Paddlewise forwarded to CPAkayaker. > > > > DID YOU GET THE AUTHOR'S PERMISSION TO DO SO ? > > > > If it is really an interesting subject for someone outside of the > > list, it might be alright to forward _all_the_postings_in_the_discussion_ > > with _previous_author's_consent_. But forwarding someone's postings > > outside of the list is not only unethical, but might create a lot > > of confusion and trouble. > > < snip > > > I'm curious what others think about this "netiquette" rule. I had always > thought it was not appropriate to forward individual email to a list > without permission, but I haven't heard objections before to things going > from one list to another. Emails go back and forth between CPAKayaker, > NYCKayaker, and Paddlewise with some regularity. > > >From my perspective, once I've posted something to a list I have no idea > who got it anyway, so I don't think I'd mind it being forwarded to > another list. > > What do others think? > > Joy Hecht > Arlington VA I was surprised to see the objection by Julio made regarding sending the post from Paddlewise over to Cpakayaker. But there may be understandable sensitivities on this and maybe that is what is being reflected. Looking at what was forwarded over, an additional item regarding accidents and accident statistics, it doesn't seem sensitive. I don't recall anything sensitive regarding it on Paddlewise. But at one point, WaveLength, a listserver from which a number of subscribers fled to help create Paddlewise, was plagued by blantant commercialism and harangues against other subscribers by one individual. It was the subject of air bladders attached to the outside of kayaks, called spxnsxns. There was a tacit understanding then on Paddlewise not to desseminate widely what later was discussed by individuals regarding the subject. The concern was that the individual who was a problem might see it on other forums and use the info to harangue people who were speaking freely on Paddlewise. So maybe the objection was in that spirit of sensitivity. Like Joy, I don't recall any other objections for sending stuff from one listserver to another. It indeed as she points out it is done all the time and it generally is welcomed as broadening information on a subject. I belong to all three lists, paddlewise, cpakayaker and nyckayaker. I sometimes get an item sent to all three directly and sometimes someone pick an item from one to send over to the other thinking it might be of wider interest as Greg H. just did and engendered the complaint from Julio. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On 11/2/98 15:42PM, Joy E. Hecht at jhecht_at_CapAccess.org wrote: >I'm curious what others think about this "netiquette" rule. I had always >thought it was not appropriate to forward individual email to a list >without permission, but I haven't heard objections before to things going >from one list to another. Emails go back and forth between CPAKayaker, >NYCKayaker, and Paddlewise with some regularity. Being primarily a whitewater lurker on a (GREAT) sea kayak list, I'm temporarily shedding my lurker status to offer a couple of thoughts from different perspectives: There is a lot of traffic that gets forwarded around the whitewater mailing lists. The Tsangpo kayaking accident was the latest posting to make the rounds. While those of us who subscribe to more than a couple of the lists may get tired of seeing the same posting on 6 different lists, I think it's great that this medium (email mailing lists) allows us to inform other groups of paddlers about pertinent issues with one forwarded posting. There is often issues on one mailing list that has great relevance to other lists. In the specific case of the Tsangpo accident, the posting that was forwarded around was a reprint of the article from the Washingon Post. The article was clearly copyrighted and identified as such in the posting I saw on at least three different whitewater lists. This opens up a legal can of worms, but I must say that I enjoyed seeing the article that I would not have seen otherwise. On the other hand, I once posted a humorous piece ("You might be addicted to paddling if") to a couple of mailing lists (as well as R.B.P.) that came out of a discussion on the CanoeTx mailing list. When I posted this, I gave credit to the four authors (including myself). I found out later that this posting had been reprinted in at least 3 paddling club hard copy newsletters (NOT mailing lists) and no one had asked for permission to reprint or even gave us credit. In closing, I'm definitely in agreement with Julio that a personal posting to one mailing list should be honored. If the reader feels strongly enough about the posting to re-post to another list, then an email message to author seeking permission only takes a minute. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Harrison-Houston, Texas email: nil_at_nol.net (_at_ _at_) web: www.nol.net/~nil/ ----------------------------ooO~(_)~Ooo---------------------------- 100% recycled electrons *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Julio MacWilliams wrote: > >> If it is really an interesting subject for someone outside of the >> list, it might be alright to forward _all_the_postings_in_the_discussion_ >> with _previous_author's_consent_. But forwarding someone's postings >> outside of the list is not only unethical, but might create a lot >> of confusion and trouble. > >< snip > > >I'm curious what others think about this "netiquette" rule. I had always >thought it was not appropriate to forward individual email to a list >without permission, but I haven't heard objections before to things going >from one list to another. Emails go back and forth between CPAKayaker, >NYCKayaker, and Paddlewise with some regularity. > snip >What do others think? > >Joy Hecht >Arlington VA I think that, regardless of the etiquette, it's awfully naive to expect information not to be shared by the recipients once it has been posted to a mailing list. I would think that things you don't want to risk being seen by other people, shouldn't be posted publically, but should be said in private mail. I base that opinion on the understanding that this is a public forum and only the listowner knows who all is receiving posts here. If that's true, then you should not participate here on the assumption that you're having a private conversation or that what you post here won't go beyond this list. If I'm wrong, then maybe our "list-Mom" will correct me and start policing and scolding those who forward posts? Personally, I wouldn't want to accept that responsibility. sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Joy E. Hecht wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Julio MacWilliams wrote: > > > Today I saw a message from Paddlewise forwarded to CPAkayaker. > > DID YOU GET THE AUTHOR'S PERMISSION TO DO SO ? > > If it is really an interesting subject for someone outside of the > > list, it might be alright to forward _all_the_postings_in_the_discussion_ > > with _previous_author's_consent_. But forwarding someone's postings > > outside of the list is not only unethical, but might create a lot > > of confusion and trouble. > < snip > > > I'm curious what others think about this "netiquette" rule. It's a gray area. Personally, anything I send to this list I regard as fair game for repeating elsewhere, only because I know the list membership is enormous, and out of my control. So, to protect myself, I withhold my more "pungent" remarks. (I have a pithy tongue! <G>) As a matter of *personal* ethics, however, I do not forward stuff to large forums without the author's permission. I have, however, forwarded excerpts of postings to non-list members, when I though they might be interested, and i do not routinely ask permission for that. Copyrighted material, however, is another matter. Jackie? What does the list maven say? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>I totally agree with you. But in case you didn't realize it, anyone on >the list can find out who-all is on it. On most listservs if you send a >message "who listname" to the software managing the list, you'll get a >list of who's on it. Of course you might only get their email addresses >-- but often that's what you're looking for. > >Joy I had forgotten about that - I guess I had never thought of a reason I would want to do that. I guess now we need a way to get a list of all the people here who will sue us if we repeat what they have to say. Of course, that might raise the further question of why they bothered to say it in the first place. But I REALLY don't want to continue this rubbish. I'm out of it as of now. Ira ************************************************************ I don't do .INI, .BAT, .CFG, or .SYS files. I don't assign apps to files. I don't configure peripherals or networks before using them. I don't manage IRQs and DMA channels, either. My computer works for me, not the other way around. I have a Macintosh. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-11-02 16:24:12 EST, juliom_at_cisco.com writes: << Today I saw a message from Paddlewise forwarded to CPAkayaker. >> This is a good issue for discussion. As a former member of CPAKayaker, I saw many items, sensitive in nature and aimed by a writer at a group with whom he or she sought to communicate, disseminated later on the CPA net. In one case, I responded to an originator of a PaddleWise post because the issue he wrote about was of great significance --- Paul Hollerbach's excellent story on the storm on the Hudson --- and asked if I could post it to the CPA net. He asked that I wait for him to rewrite it a little --- and I waited, sent on his corrected copy to CPAKayaker, only to find that someone, without his permission, had sent on a copy of the PaddleWise original to the CPA group, as well, without his knowledge. I don't know what the accepted protocol on something like this is, but I would like to believe that I could send a post to a list in which I choose to participate without having to be concerned that the post might be sent to another totally separate group without my knowledge or permission. I don't know the specifics on this issue, but it seems to have caught Julio's attention. There are certainly people who subscribe to both lists, but PaddleWise has earned a distinction in the way it is run and in the individuals who contribute to it. It may be naive on my part to expect that authorship should be respected in these days of e-mail proliferation, but I do think that a contributor should have the right to expect that his or her posts stay within a list, and not be rebroadcast without specific permission. Would like to hear Jackie's cut on this for PaddleWise. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> Would like to hear Jackie's cut on this for PaddleWise. Sooooo you wanna know what I have to say? :-) It may be a violation of copyright law to redistribute in whole or part a subscriber's post to another forum without the author's permission. Paraphrasing and quoting for fair use is acceptable. It's always a good idea to ask permission from the author before redistributing their post to another public forum but some people are going to redistribute without permission anyway. It is possible that replies to messages posted to multiple lists will not show up on those lists where the individuals sending the replies are not subscribed. All posts to PaddleWise (as well as other listservers) are archived and available to any subscriber for viewing. These messages may be viewed out of order or only in part. Not a lot you can do about that so some confusion about content is bound to arise on some subjects. That's why we are here... to help untangle the confusion... or to make more :-) I think you will find that the majority of posters will not mind at all your redistributing their work if you ask permission. This is what I have found. If they object, then you can be relieved you asked first :-) Jackie list housekeeper *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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