Dan McCarty wrote: > Still More GULPS! > > I'm trying limit the limitless variables that I keep thinking up concerning our ColdOne. But I've been thinking of the leader's responsibilities to the Group as opposed to ColdOne. What are the thoughts from people who have led trips, > large/commercial trips particularly. I can't think of any actual incidents that are close to what we have been talking about. Does anyone know of a related incident? I think we may have come to an ethical/moral problem as > opposed to a kayaking technical problem....... I'm just going to ignore Legal..... > >>>>>>>>>>>SNIP>>>>>>>>>>> G'day Dan - A very important point which you have brought up here. You would likely not hear of many (if any, I hope) commercial trips who end up in this position. At least I don't believe they should end up in this type of position in the first place. My opinion, as a commercial guide and tour operator, is that the guide has a responsibility to always err on the overtly conservative side in trip management. If you, as the most experienced person on a tour are in the "adventure level" of your abilities, then your group is likely in the "misadventure level" of their abilities and you are courting potential disaster. It is the company and the guides responsibility to avoid potential situations like this through vigilance, effective planning, safety/risk management procedures, route management, participant management and a myriad of other details. This should mean you don't end up at that point where you have the problem of the hypothermic or incapacitated participant in the first place. Therefore the question of how to get the Cold One through the surf should not really be an issue. Does it sound simplistic? Yes, I think it is. Just don't reach that critical level in your trip management in the first place. In the end, the responsibility of a lifesaver is to not become another victim, nor to allow any bystanders become further victims. You only have to refer to any of the Red Cross or St. Johns Ambulance training manuals. Remember DRABC - danger, response etc, etc, .................. This may come as a sobering thought to some. It is your responsibility and in your best interest, as a participant in an activity, to both be prepared and to monitor your own personal status on any given trip. If you are in over your head or getting even close, say so to the trip leader and be very clear about it. Don't bullshit yourself or the group and end up a liability that the group or the trip leader may not be able to do anything with. Most guides will acknowledge that there are numerous levels of meaning in the statement from a client which often comes like this - Guide - "Are you OK?" Client/particpant - "Yeah, I'm OK". The real meaning in this statement can be anything in the spectrum from "I am on top of the world and nothing can knock me off" to, "I am so bloody scared I have just soiled myself!!" Most of us are very good at our jobs and can recognise these various states - but we are not crystal ball readers. If I did end up in the unlikely position of the scenario which has been put forth - say it was a group of eight and one of the persons was so seriously incapacitated - my responsibility is to make sure ALL of the party survives by using every ability, resource and trick I can muster. I am paid to be an effective guide who does not end up with his group in this position in the first place. I am not paid enough though to be a martyr, nor to play with the lives and families of the rest of the group. As a result, much of my safety planning concerns not only my resposnbility to my clients safety, but also the responsibility to MY family. I must ensure that I get back home safely to my three daughters and my wife. Being who I am, I would likely never leave someone behind to die. I must therefore make sure I do not have to make that choice, as it would be grossly unfair and unjust to my family. I hope I never have to make this choice - it would not be easy and it would never be made casually. Hmmmmm ....................................................................... Wayne Langmaid Central Coast Kayak Tours - Australia *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I'm trying to find the name and contact info for a paddler who I met years ago at several of the Port Townsend Kayak Symposia (late '80s). He might have been about 50ish then. He had a senior female relative whom he visited down here in Orange County, California who had a wonderful collection of local shells and corals collected maybe 50 years ago. I tried to help him place the collection back then, without luck, and think I now have a Natural History Museum which might be interested in hosting the collection. Alas, I have lost his info. I believe he was well connected through one of the Washington Clubs. Please pass this on and have this nice paddler contact me if he is Still interested in finding a home for his family treasures. Joanne Turenr -- Southwind Kayak Center, Inc. 17855 Sky Park Circle #A, Irvine, CA 92614 U.S.A. 714-261-0200 or 800-SOUTHWIND (800-768-8494) info_at_southwindkayaks.com doug_at_southwindkayaks.com joanne_at_southwindkayaks.com http://www.southwindkayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:32:53 PDT