There's a decent little Buyers Guide to current Handheld GPS in the December '98 Yachting Magazine, on stands now. Not sure if it's also on www.yachtingnet.com. Not a test, just listings, but a good text oriented to commonsense needs. Low-price standout seems to be Garmin VHF 720. Submersible, 3 watts, switchable to 1-watt, all VHF channels plus weather, 3 year warrantee. "A sealed battery case protects the circuitry even when the batteries are being changed." Lists at $160. A 5-watt submersible is the Standard Communications Horizon HX350S. List $280. Re: Magellan Pioneer GPS. I get a reading in 2 to 3 minutes. In bad visibility, I leave it on, and swap batteries after a full day. On most days, I'm not using it for navigation, only as an odometer, and I switch it on at breaks, take a peek and switch it off. So far, so good, but I'm the patient type. Agreed that $50 may much be much more for quicker readings, and $120 may be worth it to go from 3-watts to 5, on the VHF. But, hey, I paddle in Maine and that's a lot of Geary's Pale Ale! For the impecunious paddler, the Magellan Pioneer plus the Garmin VHF 720 makes a nifty electronic navigation center for about $250 total street price. (It's great how electronics keep getting better and cheaper so quickly. Any takers for a pool on when the Iridium, or other handheld sat phone, will break $1,000?) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The suggestion that modest priced tools are fully useful is worth underscoring. It may be well to remember in this discussion of VHFs (and GPSs) that "waterproofness" in its varying degrees is achieved at the exclusion of Alkaline power. So unless you paddle only short times or use your radio only infrequently, power will always be a serious concern. The dry bag and alkaline battery combination is still one I recommend. Batteries can then be carried for extended use and interchanged with other essential gear. The new ICOM M3 is a compromise; water-resistant cpu and a permeable battery pack (that could be dried out in an emergency). The M3 can utilize alkaline AAs. Why is there such a rush to acquire GPS positions? A unit that takes 1 minute for acquisition seems as practical as one that takes 20 seconds. While white water kayakers rushing at 8-10 kts down some plunging defile might like to know second by second when the waterfall is coming sea kayakers are hardly ever so hurried to get a latitude/longitude fix. Visual sighting and a quick compass bearing of two have served most of us for many years. When is the fix urgent? What dangers were we facing before the "quick find" GPS models arrived? RGM VajraT_at_aol.com wrote: > > There's a decent little Buyers Guide to current Handheld GPS in the December > '98 Yachting Magazine, on stands now. Not sure if it's also on > www.yachtingnet.com. Not a test, just listings, but a good text oriented to > commonsense needs. > > Low-price standout seems to be Garmin VHF 720. Submersible, 3 watts, > switchable to 1-watt, all VHF channels plus weather, 3 year warrantee. "A > sealed battery case protects the circuitry even when the batteries are being > changed." Lists at $160. > > A 5-watt submersible is the Standard Communications Horizon HX350S. List $280. > > Re: Magellan Pioneer GPS. I get a reading in 2 to 3 minutes. In bad > visibility, I leave it on, and swap batteries after a full day. On most days, > I'm not using it for navigation, only as an odometer, and I switch it on at > breaks, take a peek and switch it off. So far, so good, but I'm the patient > type. > > Agreed that $50 may much be much more for quicker readings, and $120 may be > worth it to go from 3-watts to 5, on the VHF. But, hey, I paddle in Maine and > that's a lot of Geary's Pale Ale! > > For the impecunious paddler, the Magellan Pioneer plus the Garmin VHF 720 > makes a nifty electronic navigation center for about $250 total street price. > > (It's great how electronics keep getting better and cheaper so quickly. Any > takers for a pool on when the Iridium, or other handheld sat phone, will break > $1,000?) > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu wrote: > Why is there such a rush to acquire GPS positions? We are getting spoiled! I am more used to sailing long distances using celestial fixes at morning, noon and evening, weather permitting. On a small boat accuracy of 2-4 miles is normal. Of course this is out of sight of land. For navigation in sight of land pilotage is the rule. Fixes relative to the Land are much more reliable but require more work, perhaps more work than is always practical in a kayak. GPS is fast and easy but remember that it may fail. Keep you DR and chart up to date and have a backup plan for when the GPS doesn't know where you are. Your GPS receiver can fail, the system can fail or be turned off at any time and we now know that jamming GPS is a fairly trivial matter. NEVER trust just ONE source of navigational information. michael *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/11/1998 6:47:34 AM EST, mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu writes: << Why is there such a rush to acquire GPS positions? A unit that takes 1 minute for acquisition seems as practical as one that takes 20 seconds. While white water kayakers rushing at 8-10 kts down some plunging defile might like to know second by second when the waterfall is coming sea kayakers are hardly ever so hurried to get a latitude/longitude fix. Visual sighting and a quick compass bearing of two have served most of us for many years. When is the fix urgent? What dangers were we facing before the "quick find" GPS models arrived? >> Not a rush pal. A GPS that takes more than 5 minutes is struggling at receiving signals. When you need them the most is in some pretty raunchy weather. If you have "been there, done that" you would not have to ask this, you would have already experienced "non functionsbility" What is the use of a "non functionsal" unit. Get one that works all teh eime or not at all. Faulty navigation gear has caused many a tragedy. Quality, functional nav gear has prevented many a tragedy. Cheapiong on nav gear would be like using a $ 19.95 discount store paddle on a $ 3,500.00 Kayak. What is the purpose? To save money or prove that you can do it? Think about it. John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/11/1998 2:59:18 AM EST, VajraT_at_aol.com writes: << Re: Magellan Pioneer GPS. I get a reading in 2 to 3 minutes. In bad visibility, I leave it on, and swap batteries after a full day. On most days, I'm not using it for navigation, only as an odometer, and I switch it on at breaks, take a peek and switch it off. So far, so good, but I'm the patient type. >> If you are switching it on, taking a reading, switching it off, move, rep this senario, you are not using the odometer feathure, but simply taking spot location fixes. When push comes to shove and use of a GPS really comes into it's own, the Pioneer will not perform. Like all low budget electronics, it has been trimmed down to where it is marginally functionally. It is not what they say it will do, it is what it actually does. There is a big difference with the Pioneer. Splurge an extra $ 50.00 and get a real GPS. Garmin of Magellean it does not matter, but get a real one. Prices for real ones start at $ 150.00. Anything less is a toy. I speak from experience of having wasted my time buying a Pioneer. I sold it at a slight loss, but am thrilled at what $ 50.00 in cost makes up in performance. This is not a put down if you have a Pioneer, just to let you know there is a really big difference. John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I couldn't agree more. Why spend extra money on a GPS because its "faster". I don't use it for whitewater, just for a location check, occassionally. Otherwise I use my trusty $15.00 compass. Arlene. -----Original Message----- From: Johnlebl_at_aol.com <Johnlebl_at_aol.com> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] VHF plus GPS for $250? Yes.... >In a message dated 12/11/1998 6:47:34 AM EST, mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu writes: > ><< Why is there such a rush to acquire GPS positions? A unit that > takes 1 minute for acquisition seems as practical as one that > takes 20 seconds. While white water kayakers rushing at 8-10 kts > down some plunging defile might like to know second by second > when the waterfall is coming sea kayakers are hardly ever so > hurried to get a latitude/longitude fix. Visual sighting and a > quick compass bearing of two have served most of us for many > years. When is the fix urgent? What dangers were we facing > before the "quick find" GPS models arrived? >> > >Not a rush pal. A GPS that takes more than 5 minutes is struggling at >receiving signals. When you need them the most is in some pretty raunchy >weather. If you have "been there, done that" you would not have to ask this, >you would have already experienced "non functionsbility" What is the use of a >"non functionsal" unit. Get one that works all teh eime or not at all. > >Faulty navigation gear has caused many a tragedy. Quality, functional nav >gear has prevented many a tragedy. > >Cheapiong on nav gear would be like using a $ 19.95 discount store paddle on a >$ 3,500.00 Kayak. What is the purpose? To save money or prove that you can >do it? > >Think about it. > >John > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
johnlebl_at_aol.com wrote: > Faulty navigation gear has caused many a tragedy. Quality, functional nav > gear has prevented many a tragedy. I have to argue this one. Faulty NAVIGATION has caused tragedys. Good navigation uses information form several different sources so that a failure of any one source does not cause any problem. Always (well as much as is practical) use every source of information available. Direct observation is always the most important tool. If you launch your kayak in Florida and are in the water for less than 3 hours, it is easy to know that a GPS reporting that you are in California is in error. Likewise, if it shows that you have traveled 100 miles in the same 3 hours, you might get the idea that something is not quite right. Many people have crossed oceans without instruments beyond the senses they were born with. A good book to start with is "We the Navigators" by Dr. David Lewis. A GPS is only a tool and it is only one tool in the navigators bag of tricks. I list it well down on the list of tools which also includes a good deck mount compass, a hand bearing compass, a chart of the area, and other items as available. I tend to add a good knotlog (that I have calibrated) before a GPS, in any case it is a good item to use with a GPS as I can then compare speed and direction through the water to speed and direction over the ground and calculate set and drift i.e. the effect of current. If you are in an area of good coverage a Loran C can be a wonderfull item, it will actually take you back to a spot you have been before more accurately than a GPS. These are also dirt cheap as most people are jumping to GPS. > Cheapiong on nav gear would be like using a $ 19.95 discount store paddle on a > $ 3,500.00 Kayak. What is the purpose? To save money or prove that you can > do it? This I do agree with. Buying cheap gear is false economy. At the same time it is very important to invest in training and skill before equipment, especially when it comes to navigation. Good basic navigation skills will still work even if you have no electronics at all. Knowing how to navigate will also help you pick the best tools for you and the navigation you need to do. There is a big difference between paddling a kayak along a sheltered coast and crossing an ocean and the navigation tools selected will be different. Example, I doubt that I would ever use a sextant on a kayak but I would not cross an ocean without one. michael *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> NEVER trust just ONE source of navigational information. Transcontinental 747s still use 3 identical inertial navigation systems! cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Not true! The Standards use either alkilines or nicads > It may be well to remember in this discussion of VHFs (and GPSs) > that "waterproofness" in its varying degrees is achieved at the > exclusion of Alkaline power. So unless you paddle only short > times or use your radio only infrequently, power will always be a > serious concern. The dry bag and alkaline battery combination is > still one I recommend. Batteries can then be carried for > extended use and interchanged with other essential gear. The new > ICOM M3 is a compromise; water-resistant cpu and a permeable > battery pack (that could be dried out in an emergency). The M3 > can utilize alkaline AAs. Again, someone who doesn't seem to understand the differences between the benefits of single or dual receivers and 12 parallel. The quick fix time is simply a benefit of the unit, but it's main benefit is the ability to maintain a fix through rough conditions which can include narrow filed of view (canyons, cliffs, etc, forest canopies and fast speeds. (I use my 12xl on commercial flights all the time). In addition, the battery life of the current generation GPS has improved dramatically. The 12XL is 24 hours under normal conditions. This means not having to replace batteries while on the water and avoiding the risk of flooded battery compartments. cya > Why is there such a rush to acquire GPS positions? A unit that > takes 1 minute for acquisition seems as practical as one that > takes 20 seconds. While white water kayakers rushing at 8-10 kts > down some plunging defile might like to know second by second > when the waterfall is coming sea kayakers are hardly ever so > hurried to get a latitude/longitude fix. Visual sighting and a > quick compass bearing of two have served most of us for many > years. When is the fix urgent? What dangers were we facing > before the "quick find" GPS models arrived? > > RGM > > > > > > VajraT_at_aol.com wrote: > > > > There's a decent little Buyers Guide to current Handheld > GPS in the December > > '98 Yachting Magazine, on stands now. Not sure if it's also on > > www.yachtingnet.com. Not a test, just listings, but a good > text oriented to > > commonsense needs. > > > > Low-price standout seems to be Garmin VHF 720. > Submersible, 3 watts, > > switchable to 1-watt, all VHF channels plus weather, 3 year > warrantee. "A > > sealed battery case protects the circuitry even when the > batteries are being > > changed." Lists at $160. > > > > A 5-watt submersible is the Standard Communications Horizon > HX350S. List $280. > > > > Re: Magellan Pioneer GPS. I get a reading in 2 to 3 > minutes. In bad > > visibility, I leave it on, and swap batteries after a full > day. On most days, > > I'm not using it for navigation, only as an odometer, and I > switch it on at > > breaks, take a peek and switch it off. So far, so good, > but I'm the patient > > type. > > > > Agreed that $50 may much be much more for quicker readings, > and $120 may be > > worth it to go from 3-watts to 5, on the VHF. But, hey, I > paddle in Maine and > > that's a lot of Geary's Pale Ale! > > > > For the impecunious paddler, the Magellan Pioneer plus the > Garmin VHF 720 > > makes a nifty electronic navigation center for about $250 > total street price. > > > > (It's great how electronics keep getting better and cheaper > so quickly. Any > > takers for a pool on when the Iridium, or other handheld > sat phone, will break > > $1,000?) > > > > > ************************************************************** > ************* > > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > > > ************************************************************** > ************* > ************************************************************** > ************* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > ************************************************************** > ************* > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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