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From: Julio MacWilliams <juliom_at_cisco.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] surf skis?
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:05:32 -0800 (PST)
Could anyone please define what is a surf ski?

Are those long 19feet x 18inch rockets really used in surf?

Are they all open deck? Or does a long and narrow closed deck
kayak qualify?

Do they all have rudders? Is that necessary/desirable?

Can a 18feet x 19inch Greenland kayak be considered a 
surf ski? If not, what does it need?

thanks!

- Julio
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From: Mattson, Timothy G <timothy.g.mattson_at_intel.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] surf skis?
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:16:39 -0800
 
Julio,

I'm looking forward to the discussion that will be generated by your
questions about surf skis.  I don't have a definition for a surf ski. I've
only seen sit on tops called surf skis. 

As your post suggested, the key is to get the waterline length to the width
ratio as high as possible.  An interesting web site to check out on this
issue is the sound rowers boat classification web site.  The URL is:

    www.accessone.com/~traci/SoundRowers/yakclass.html

They define three classes of kayak based on this ratio: sea kayak (less than
9.25), fast sea  kayak (between 9.25 and 10.99), and high performance kayak
(greater than 10.99).  All the surf skis I'm aware of are considered high
performance kayaks with ratios typically between 12 and 14.  

There are some decked kayaks that fall in the high performance kayak class.
For example, a famous decked kayak in the northwest racing scene is the
Sissuou Evolution (affectionatly known up here as "orange crush").  The
boat's waterline length to the width ratio is greater than 12! 

As for rudders, my experience is that these boats really need the rudders.
Yes, a skilled paddler can control the boat without the rudder, but the goal
for surf skis and other high performance kayaks is speed.  If you want the
ultimate speed, you want to use a wing paddle.  A wing paddle is great for
forward strokes, but is not too good at correction strokes -- hence the
rudder is quite useful.  Even without the wing paddle, the rudder is useful
since it can replace some correction strokes and let the paddler's energy
focus on the forwared stroke.

As for surf, I can't imagine using a surf ski in breaking surf.  I suspect
their lack of maneuverability would be difficult and that they would tend to
broach in the breaking wave.  They are great, however, for surfing swells.

Finally, a comment on your greenland kayak.  I don't know if it would be
considered a surf ski, but its waterline length to the width ratio would be
around 12 which would make it a high performance kayak.

--Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: Julio MacWilliams
To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Sent: 12/23/98 10:05 PM
Subject: [Paddlewise] surf skis?

Could anyone please define what is a surf ski?

Are those long 19feet x 18inch rockets really used in surf?

Are they all open deck? Or does a long and narrow closed deck
kayak qualify?

Do they all have rudders? Is that necessary/desirable?

Can a 18feet x 19inch Greenland kayak be considered a 
surf ski? If not, what does it need?

thanks!

- Julio
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From: Michael R Noyes <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] surf skis?
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:47:39 -0500
Mattson, Timothy G wrote:

> They define three classes of kayak based on this ratio: sea kayak (less than
> 9.25), fast sea  kayak (between 9.25 and 10.99), and high performance kayak
> (greater than 10.99).  All the surf skis I'm aware of are considered high
> performance kayaks with ratios typically between 12 and 14.
>
> There are some decked kayaks that fall in the high performance kayak class.
> For example, a famous decked kayak in the northwest racing scene is the
> Sissuou Evolution (affectionatly known up here as "orange crush").  The
> boat's waterline length to the width ratio is greater than 12!
>
>

So how do you classify the X-Par Missile, 24 feet long by 18 inches wide?

Mike


--
    Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are
visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great
blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a
mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your
passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space.
Mark H Hunt


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From: Kathy Bliven <foxhill_at_shore.intercom.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] surf skis?
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 06:13:07 -0500
>From Tim Mattson,

>As your post suggested, the key is to get the waterline length to the width
>ratio as high as possible.  An interesting web site to check out on this
>issue is the sound rowers boat classification web site.  The URL is:
>
>    www.accessone.com/~traci/SoundRowers/yakclass.html
>

That's one cool link! with a great table for a simpe comparison of boats
and race schedule.

Thor Mattson is enroute now from the East Coast to Yakama, WA. i'll pass
this info on to him. He does wilderness touring and races a Futura Carrera.
So i'm sure he'll be happy to see the race schedule. he raced in the
Delmarva canoe&kayak circuit on the Chesapeake bay last season.

bye bye bliven





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From: Barbara Kossy <bkossy_at_igc.apc.org>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] surf skis?
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 06:46:09 -0800 (PST)
I had the impression that surf skis were invented to aid in surf rescues in
Hawaii.
Am I wrong?
Barbara

At 12:16 AM 12/24/98 -0800, Mattson, Timothy G wrote:
> 
>Julio,
>
>I'm looking forward to the discussion that will be generated by your
>questions about surf skis.  I don't have a definition for a surf ski. I've
>only seen sit on tops called surf skis. 
>
>As your post suggested, the key is to get the waterline length to the width
>ratio as high as possible.  An interesting web site to check out on this
>issue is the sound rowers boat classification web site.  The URL is:
>
>    www.accessone.com/~traci/SoundRowers/yakclass.html
>
>They define three classes of kayak based on this ratio: sea kayak (less than
>9.25), fast sea  kayak (between 9.25 and 10.99), and high performance kayak
>(greater than 10.99).  All the surf skis I'm aware of are considered high
>performance kayaks with ratios typically between 12 and 14.  
>
>There are some decked kayaks that fall in the high performance kayak class.
>For example, a famous decked kayak in the northwest racing scene is the
>Sissuou Evolution (affectionatly known up here as "orange crush").  The
>boat's waterline length to the width ratio is greater than 12! 
>
>As for rudders, my experience is that these boats really need the rudders.
>Yes, a skilled paddler can control the boat without the rudder, but the goal
>for surf skis and other high performance kayaks is speed.  If you want the
>ultimate speed, you want to use a wing paddle.  A wing paddle is great for
>forward strokes, but is not too good at correction strokes -- hence the
>rudder is quite useful.  Even without the wing paddle, the rudder is useful
>since it can replace some correction strokes and let the paddler's energy
>focus on the forwared stroke.
>
>As for surf, I can't imagine using a surf ski in breaking surf.  I suspect
>their lack of maneuverability would be difficult and that they would tend to
>broach in the breaking wave.  They are great, however, for surfing swells.
>
>Finally, a comment on your greenland kayak.  I don't know if it would be
>considered a surf ski, but its waterline length to the width ratio would be
>around 12 which would make it a high performance kayak.
>
>--Tim
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Julio MacWilliams
>To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
>Sent: 12/23/98 10:05 PM
>Subject: [Paddlewise] surf skis?
>
>Could anyone please define what is a surf ski?
>
>Are those long 19feet x 18inch rockets really used in surf?
>
>Are they all open deck? Or does a long and narrow closed deck
>kayak qualify?
>
>Do they all have rudders? Is that necessary/desirable?
>
>Can a 18feet x 19inch Greenland kayak be considered a 
>surf ski? If not, what does it need?
>
>thanks!
>
>- Julio
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From: SurfBuff <kayaker_at_caribsurf.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] surf skis?
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:13:56 -0400
I had the impression that surf skis were invented to aid in surf rescues in
Hawaii.
Am I wrong?
Barbara

As I understand it, they were invented by the Australians for surf rescues


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From: John Winters <735769_at_ican.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] surf skis?
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 08:17:14 -0500
Julio wrote;


>Could anyone please define what is a surf ski?


No.

Cheers,
John Winters
Redwing Designs
Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft
http://home.ican.net/~735769/

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From: Whiterabbit <whiterabbit_at_iw.edwpub.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] surf skis?
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:03:23 -0600
John stumped!!!  I think we have a first ;)

At 08:17 AM 12/26/98 -0500, John Winters wrote:
>Julio wrote;
>
>
>>Could anyone please define what is a surf ski?
>
>
>No.
>
>Cheers,
>John Winters
>Redwing Designs
>Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft
>http://home.ican.net/~735769/
>
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