In Barkley Sound in October I started thinking a VHF might be a nice thing to have, as there was nobody around to see my aerial flares. My ham buddy tells me VHF is line-of-sight range. I'm not sure I could have raised the Coasties in Tofino if I'd needed to. There were occasional fishing boats around, but had it been truly nasty, they probably would have bolted. I know it's a hail mary kinda gadget, but do I have a good chance of getting heard when my Caribou has burned down to the waterline? Assuming I'm out there. Thanks, Plays Well With Otters (my new Lakota name) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Edward Sullivan wrote: > > In Barkley Sound in October I started thinking a VHF might be a nice > thing to have, as there was nobody around to see my aerial flares. My > ham buddy tells me VHF is line-of-sight range. [snip] > > I know it's a hail mary kinda gadget, but do I have a good chance of > getting heard when my Caribou has burned down to the waterline? Assuming > I'm out there. I'm glad you raised the question, because the answer is a rather large "depends." "Depends?" On what, you ask? I think it depends on whether or not other *sea kayakers* leave their VHF's on, and tuned to Channel 16, the universal hailing/emergency channel. Face it -- in places like Barkley Sound, the nearest craft is a sea kayak, not a fishing vessel or a sailboat (and there are a lot of sea kayaks in Barkley Sound!). Yeah, sure, it would be better to reach the Coast Guard, or a motor vessel, but we are probably the best "safety net" in places like Barkley Sound. Same's true many other places I paddle -- but not everywhere. I believe the Canadian CG has a sizable antenna on a ridge overlooking Barkley Sound, so they *might* pick up your weeny 5 Watt transmission from your handheld -- but that depends on good line-of-sight to their antenna -- which is at least 5 - 8 miles off, depending on where you are on Barkley Sound. Eight miles is getting close to the *practical* range for a 5 Watt handheld (assuming the standard rubber ducky antenna), though I have now and then gotten 8 miles beach-to-beach, handheld to handheld, a tougher shot. OTOH, I have *regularly* made successful transmissions to other handheld VHF's in the hands of sea kayakers, also in their yaks, in the water, over a distance of 2 - 3 miles, sometimes *over an intervening ridge.* In Barkley Sound, that range probably includes a half dozen sea kayakers. Now, if they only had their VHF's ON. And, I bet they DON'T, because most sea kayakers (in my experience) only turn the VHF on to listen to the weather, yak briefly at other yakkers, or to send out a Mayday. In other words, most of us are so selfish that we don't want to be part of the "safety net" to help others -- but we DO expect somebody else to hear us, and respond. How about it? Do you leave your VHF on, tuned to 16 (and whatever "call" channel fits your area) while paddling? Bet you don't. I'll collect responses and summarize the results -- no one needs to confess to the Paddlewise throng they are selfish. I promise to maintain confidentiality. Just email me. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR -- P.S. Most of my own paddling is in the Lower Columbia River, where I monitor 16 and 13 (shipping traffic). I think down here I could raise a pleasure craft, duck hunter, or maybe a pilot on a freighter, but not a sea kayaker. Not many of us around, and the area is too huge for me to expect other sea kayakers to form a "safety net." I also am able to monitor current conditions by listening to the barge traffic and freighters exchange info. I leave it on, down here, but have yet to hear another sea kayaker asking for help. Have heard lots of power boaters requesting aid from the CG, however. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave: Here is the first vote. I *always* leave my VHF on and tuned to 16 regardless of where I'm paddling. As you have seen, it is carried in a waterproof bag in a right chest pocket on my PFD -- right below my right ear. I adjust the squelch to just below static level and listen in as I go along. Weather alerts are picked up this way, too. There is not always a lot of chatter. During a week in the northern Charlottes in the fall I heard two calls between fisherfolk (and none from kayakers). VHF has other advantages. It is truly international -- the same call rules and procedures apply in Greenland and Thailand, the Great Lakes and Patagonia, and most power and sail craft *do* keep 16 on. I have a license, too. Though it is not needed in the US coastal waters it is in other countries. You don't always need to reach the coast guard directly (which may not be near, or immediately concerned with kayakers) to get help. Other boaters can pass messages along quite effectively. Your handheld VHF may only have 5 watts and an 8" antenna but if there is a sailboat within 3-5 miles they have 25 watts and a 40' antenna. EPIRBS require much longer response times (24-36 hours ?), are monitored only by government agencies, and will not reach the very local and at-hand help one often needs. Final note: the new generation of VHFs with digital tuning and controls are a nightmare in an emergency if you are an old folk like I am. Instead of my M7's audible adjustments for squelch, for example, my new and improved M3 now requires I get out the reading glasses and visually set a squelch level, then return to normal monitoring. I believe all VHFs should be on and ready for instant use, including use in the drink. That is no time to be looking for the "on" button. Let's see what others do. Rich Dave Kruger wrote: > > Edward Sullivan wrote: > > > > In Barkley Sound in October I started thinking a VHF might be a nice > > thing to have, as there was nobody around to see my aerial flares. My > > ham buddy tells me VHF is line-of-sight range. [snip] > > > > I know it's a hail mary kinda gadget, but do I have a good chance of > > getting heard when my Caribou has burned down to the waterline? Assuming > > I'm out there. > > I'm glad you raised the question, because the answer is a rather large "depends." > > "Depends?" On what, you ask? > > I think it depends on whether or not other *sea kayakers* leave their VHF's on, and tuned to Channel > 16, the universal hailing/emergency channel. Face it -- in places like Barkley Sound, the nearest > craft is a sea kayak, not a fishing vessel or a sailboat (and there are a lot of sea kayaks in > Barkley Sound!). Yeah, sure, it would be better to reach the Coast Guard, or a motor vessel, but we > are probably the best "safety net" in places like Barkley Sound. Same's true many other places I > paddle -- but not everywhere. > > I believe the Canadian CG has a sizable antenna on a ridge overlooking Barkley Sound, so they > *might* pick up your weeny 5 Watt transmission from your handheld -- but that depends on good > line-of-sight to their antenna -- which is at least 5 - 8 miles off, depending on where you are on > Barkley Sound. Eight miles is getting close to the *practical* range for a 5 Watt handheld > (assuming the standard rubber ducky antenna), though I have now and then gotten 8 miles > beach-to-beach, handheld to handheld, a tougher shot. > > OTOH, I have *regularly* made successful transmissions to other handheld VHF's in the hands of sea > kayakers, also in their yaks, in the water, over a distance of 2 - 3 miles, sometimes *over an > intervening ridge.* In Barkley Sound, that range probably includes a half dozen sea kayakers. > > Now, if they only had their VHF's ON. And, I bet they DON'T, because most sea kayakers (in my > experience) only turn the VHF on to listen to the weather, yak briefly at other yakkers, or to send > out a Mayday. In other words, most of us are so selfish that we don't want to be part of the > "safety net" to help others -- but we DO expect somebody else to hear us, and respond. > > How about it? Do you leave your VHF on, tuned to 16 (and whatever "call" channel fits your area) > while paddling? Bet you don't. > > I'll collect responses and summarize the results -- no one needs to confess to the Paddlewise throng > they are selfish. I promise to maintain confidentiality. Just email me. > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR > -- > P.S. Most of my own paddling is in the Lower Columbia River, where I monitor 16 and 13 (shipping > traffic). I think down here I could raise a pleasure craft, duck hunter, or maybe a pilot on a > freighter, but not a sea kayaker. Not many of us around, and the area is too huge for me to expect > other sea kayakers to form a "safety net." I also am able to monitor current conditions by > listening to the barge traffic and freighters exchange info. I leave it on, down here, but have yet > to hear another sea kayaker asking for help. Have heard lots of power boaters requesting aid from > the CG, however. > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** -- Richard G. Mitchell, Jr. Department of Sociology Oregon State University Corvallis, OR 97331 U.S.A. (541) 752-1323 phone/fax mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:29 PM 12/1/98 -0800, Dave K wrote: >How about it? Do you leave your VHF on, tuned to 16 (and whatever "call" channel fits your area) >while paddling? Bet you don't. > >I'll collect responses and summarize the results -- no one needs to confess to the Paddlewise throng >they are selfish. I promise to maintain confidentiality. Just email me. > Okay, colour me selfish, but most of the time I leave my VHF off. This partially an aesthetic choice - I don't want to ruin the tranquility I came for - and partially a functional one - I don't have an endless supply of batteries. I could rationalize this by suggesting that any emergency that took place over my horizon (that is, a crisis I might hear about on the VHF that I would not otherwise have known about) I would take so long to get to that my presence would make little difference. There are times I do monitor 16, but again mostly for selfish reasons. If I'm crossing a major traffic lane, I contact Vessel Traffic Services on the appropriate channel to confirm that it's safe to "cross the street" and to advise them of my position and planned course. I then set the scanning on the VHF to flip between the traffic channel and channel 16. Once clear, I sign off with Traffic Services, and turn off the radio. Re:cell phones. Not sure about the US. Here in Canada, in some areas you can hit *16 on a cell phone and be directly connected to the Coast Guard rescue. However the Coast Guard still prefers that you use VHF channel 16 if possible - the idea being that other boats in the immediate vicinity may hear you, speeding up response time and possibly making it unnecessary for the increasingly under funded Coasties to respond at all. Philip T. **************************************** Mountain Equipment Co-op 1655 West 3rd Avenue, Vancouver, BC, Canada V6J 1K1 Tel: 640-732-1989 Fax: 604-731-6483 email: pid_at_mec.ca Visit our website at: http://www.mec.ca ***************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In the US, (at least in Maine), cellular phone users can reach the Coast Guard by dialing *CG. Canadian Coast Guard in Saint John, New Brunswick is listed at *16. The direct connection to Coast Guard SAR offices seems like a strong advantage for cell phones in emergencies. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> (and there are a lot of sea kayaks in > Barkley Sound!). Actually, (and delightfully) I had the sound to myself, except for two kayakers I chatted up as they paddled by my camp on Dodd on the first evening. And an occasional fishing boat. Wonderous and a little spooky. For Mr. Martin: How does an EPIRB compare in size and weight? Can it run on AA batteries (I try to standardize all battery appliances for swappage in emergency). And I-thought-I-might-shouldn't-be-out-in-October, but the weather broke, I had a forecast for three days of nice, I was in Tofino and could not resist. Somebody else said: "EPIRB require much longer response times (24-36 hours ?)" ???? Why so long? I really prefer same-day service when I am bobbing. As always *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:58 AM 12/2/98 -0800, Edward wrote: >Somebody else said: "EPIRB require much longer response times (24-36 >hours ?)" ???? Why so long? I really prefer same-day service when I am >bobbing. > One reason is that the false alarm rate with EPIRBs is about 90%. The Coast Guard may wait several hours before responding just to be sure it's for real. This situation should improve as traceable EPIRBs with their unique coded signals replace those that just send out "generic" signals. The second reason: In areas where there is not yet continuous satellite coverage, your EPIRB signal is not detected until a satellite happens to pass overhead. It then records your signal, but does not download it to SAR stations until it passes over one of those. As satellite coverage improves, EPIRB signals will be able to be received in "real time". Even so I expect the response time will still be longer than if you were able to contact someone nearby on VHF 16. So, although I carry an EPIRB, I don't count on it for situations where I might swimming - I think of it more for situations where I might be stranded ashore with a dislocated shoulder, for example, able to hold out for a couple of days, but unable to proceed under my own power. While we're talking EPIRBs, I notice Breitling-Orbiter (www.breitling-orbiter.ch) is making a watch with a built-in 121.5 MHz beacon. The ultimate X-mas gift for the tech-weenie kayaker on your list? Cheers Philip T. **************************************** Mountain Equipment Co-op 1655 West 3rd Avenue, Vancouver, BC, Canada V6J 1K1 Tel: 640-732-1989 Fax: 604-731-6483 email: pid_at_mec.ca Visit our website at: http://www.mec.ca ***************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
(Answering to the question of whether I leave my VHF on while paddling) Not anymore. I used to do that every time, but after several day long trips in the San Francisco Bay I decided to turn it off. The VHF traffic inside the bay is very heavy, and I would get distracted all the time. Most of the VHF traffic inside the SF Bay is irrelevant to kayakers. The only relevant message I have ever heard was "group of paddlers, can you hear me?". Since the Coast Guard had announced a few minutes before a paddle race under the Golden Gate, I waited for a second transmition to make sure it was for us. That second retransmition never came, so either the originator does not know the VHF protocol, or it was not for us. Personally, I would like to announce on Ch 16, something like "group of sea kayakers are about to cross Racoon Straight, please exercise caution" just like the Coast Guard does. However, I have been afraid to do so because the Coast Guard might not like it, or most boaters would just ignore it. What are your opinions on that? Should I go ahead and announce our presence on Ch 16? Another thing I have noticed is that around here, people do not use the VHF protocol that appears in the (at least) European boat licensing books. In those books it says that the correct protocol is <the called destination three times> this is < your identifier three times> <message> (mayday, mayday relay, pan, and other parts of the protocol ommitted) And a call should be repated 2 times every 30 seconds (or so) if there is no answer. I guess in the US the VHF protocol is "clear talk"; something like "hey you!" "yeah?..." that gives no clue as to who is using the channel. So, do you think that a message like "attention [all boaters (3 times)], this is [sea kayakers (3 times)], we are about to cross Racoon straight, please use caution", would be an overkill? While it is my turn to speak :-) Let me tell you from personal experience that both cellular phones, and VHF radios, are useless when paddling close to a cliff; the signal does not go anywhere. I have found short wave to be much more reliable in that situation, which is all very common in coastal sea kayaking. The signal travels upward and bounces between the sky and the ground, going away many miles. The only drawback is that the Coast Guard does not have to monitor short wave all the time, but, hey, it is better than nothing. Finding a short wave side band handheld radio might be a challenge, though, and installing one of the full size ones inside the hull probably requires some skill. Your thoughts and experiences? please? - Julio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Julio MacWilliams wrote: > > (Answering to the question of whether I leave my VHF on while paddling) > > Not anymore. I used to do that every time, but after several day long > trips in the San Francisco Bay I decided to turn it off. The VHF > traffic inside the bay is very heavy, and I would get distracted all > the time. I can appreciate that VHF use in a high-traffic area would be different than in an isolated area like Barkley Sound. I know how annoying it is to hear the constant yammering of the Neanderthal segment of the power boat crowd. We get that here during part of the summer, when the salmon (remember them?) season is open. > Most of the VHF traffic inside the SF Bay is irrelevant to kayakers.[snip] > Personally, I would like to announce on Ch 16, something like > "group of sea kayakers are about to cross Racoon Straight, please > exercise caution" just like the Coast Guard does. However, I have > been afraid to do so because the Coast Guard might not like it, or > most boaters would just ignore it. > > What are your opinions on that? Should I go ahead and announce > our presence on Ch 16? Yes. Do it. Usually this would be a "Securite'" call, I believe. Professional mariners such as tug captains and freighter drivers will appreciate the heads-up, and will normally make a serious effort to locate you (visually -- we are nothing on radar). For many waters, we have no protection aside from avoiding shipping channels. When you have to cross a shipping channel in traffic, the call is a good idea. In some areas, there is a shipping traffic coordinator channel you can contact to see if anything heavy is headed your way. YMMV > Another thing I have noticed is that around here, people do not use > the VHF protocol that appears in the (at least) European boat licensing > books. In those books it says that the correct protocol is[snip] > > I guess in the US the VHF protocol is "clear talk"; something like > "hey you!" "yeah?..." that gives no clue as to who is using the channel. Bozo-speak is bozo-speak, no matter the culture or nationality. Unfortunately, in high-traffic areas such as yours, Julio, "average" marine VHF courtesy is at the pre-Neanderthal stage. In other areas (mine is one), most of transmissions are between professional mariners, who still exercise correct radio protocol, and gentlemanly politeness, also. Maybe one of the last refuges of the civilized! In my limited experience in remote areas, where the VHF is the ONLY (best?) way villages/fishing vessels/yakkers/packet freighters/outfitters/etc. can communicate, protocol is informal, but respectful. In the Charlottes, for example, locals use channel 6 (yeah, they know they are supposed to use a different channel) as the "party line," for all sorts of communication. Makes for a nice way to keep in touch with those around you, when you need to. When you want silence, you can have that, also. They all monitor 6 and 16. Almost nobody uses 16 for hailing, freeing it for emergency traffic. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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