Some of the higher end PFDs on the whitewater market are designed with quick-release cam straps with a large ring in the back to clip in a tow rope via a biner. The person or boat being towed is clipped into the tower. If there is a problem, the tower pulls the quick release cam on the front of the PFD and the ring slides off the strap. Have any of you tried this method of towing on open water? If so, what do you think? If not, what do you think? My whitewater instructors at NOC all had to where this style PFD and it worked well. Dave Miner david.miner_at_gsbsc.gensig.com Sarasota, FL ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating tow rope Author: wanewman_at_uswest.net at Internet2 Date: 1/29/99 12:27 AM Thanks Mark I agree with your comments about needing a floating line and on practicing with various systems and techniques so people can get skilled enough to start a tow quickly in an emergency situation. Don Dimond and I taught a towing clinic so we had the chance to look into the various towing systems and techniques in depth. We of course have our own preferences and prejudices so not everyone will agree with us. We feel that for most Great Lakes paddlers a 30 to 50 foot tow line is sufficient and longer lines just add more bulk. However if you think you will be towing in very large seas a line over 50 feet might be in order. More line gives you more options, but a long line gets bulky unless you want to compromise by using a small diameter. I prefer to only pay out as much line as needed since the more rope there is in the water the greater the drag and wasted energy. However it is worth noting that in a following sea you may need to pay out the full length to keep from getting overtaken by the towed kayak. When heading into the wind a shorter length is in order. Also you take the emotional state of the person you are assisting into account - the closer they are to you the better if their confidence has been shaken. I can't stress enough the importance of a shock cord in the system. A friend of mine towed someone five miles in 10 to 15 foot seas without a shock cord on his tow line. He said when the boats decided to head down opposite sides of a wave it felt like being rear-ended in a car accident. He is lucky he did not peel the deck off his kayak in one of these impacts. The average towing force is normally less than 10 pounds, so it is the sudden shocks that need to be damped out of the system - a thicker rope is not needed for greater strength, but thicker lines are easier to pull on forcefully bare handed, and if rubbed or frayed they are less likely to part when you need them most ( use as a heavy a line as you can, as long as it does not get to bulky). For long tows a deck mounted rig is less tiring than a waist mount. Keep in mind a Caribiner is not a suitable quick release since it will not open under tension. There are some great Cam-cleat deck mount rigs that you can release one-handed while upside down and disoriented, and most commercial waist tows have quick release buckles. The big advantage to a waist tow is that unlike a deck mounted system you can give it to someone else and have them tow you! It seems like I always end up on the hard work side of the tow line! Although Caribiners are workable I think they are a bit bulky and can tend to jam after abuse and exposure to saltwater. I have used some smaller stainless steel clips that I found in the sailing gear at Boat US ( Halyard clips???) which are a bit expensive, but seem to be just the ticket. Mark Stirling wrote: > I strongly suggest that people get out there and try out a few tow > ropes. I have both 100" foot homemade and a 60 foot Northwater > systems towrope. Both are equipped with stainless caribiners at each > end and floats. A sinking rope is next to useless in rough > conditions. Clearly someone needing towing is likely incapacitated > and reaching into the water to pick up a sinking line puts that person > at greater than necessary risk of capsize. The concept of the biner is > that you can paddle past the distressed kayak and clip it on almost > instantly without fuss. The strain actually comes on gradually not > with any sudden jerk if your towline is of reasonable length. The > lines I'm using are of 7/16" and 1/2" diameter and the strength is > more than adequate. The primary consideration is handling. The > length to be paid out is to allow the towed kayak to be at the same > relative position on its wave as the kayak towing. This minimizes > stress and makes towing any distance much easier. I use an around the > waist belt attachment with quick release buckle. I have seem some > deck mounted arrangements but have been doubtful about their quick > release ability which may be necessary in surf etc. I believe a quick > release arrangement to be superior to the "weak link" concepts > proposed. Again the best way is to get out in expected conditions > somewhere safe (i.e. safe beach with onshore wind in rough conditions) > and practice so you can use your rescue systems with ease and > confidence. > > Mark > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** Received: from xtranet-qe1.gensig.com ([206.231.19.17]) by SMTP2.GENSIG.com with SMTP (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise) id 000ABB7A; Thu, 28 Jan 99 14:16:30 -0500 Received: from ns1.intelenet.net ([204.182.160.31]) by xtranet-qe1.gensig.com via smtpd (for smtp2.gensig.com [206.231.19.18]) with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 19:16:41 UT Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09841 Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:24:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (intelenet.net [204.182.160.1]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09836 Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:24:13 -0800 (PST) From: wanewman_at_uswest.net Received: from mplspop2.mpls.uswest.net (mplspop2.mpls.uswest.net [204.147.80.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA14634 for <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 21771 invoked by alias); 28 Jan 1999 18:23:58 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net_at_fixme Received: (qmail 21712 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jan 1999 18:23:56 -0000 Received: from dialupe216.mpls.uswest.net (HELO pop.mpls.uswest.net) (207.225.144.216) by mplspop2.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 18:23:56 -0000 Message-ID: <36B154B7.E3C8886D_at_pop.mpls.uswest.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:27:03 -0600 Reply-To: wanewman_at_uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Stirling <msti_at_istar.ca> CC: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating tow rope References: <36b1e6e3.5473221_at_mail.istar.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
It is my preferred method for towing, for it helps me cut down on the amount of hurky-jurky, gives me a direct feel for what is going on behind me, is easier to keep from tangling when pivoting (though I would not want to windowshade), and is very easy to disconnect if there are any problems without leaving me drooling line which may become snagged (particularly important in ww). (BTW, in addition to a quick release, the better ones have cord or ribbon which will break under too sudden a heavy a load and also have a carabiner which will break under too sudden a heavy load. Not too important for open water towing, but essential for ww towing.) Cheers, Richard Culpeper www.geocities.com/~culpeper ---------- > From: David.Miner_at_gsbsc.gensig.com > To: > Cc: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: [Paddlewise] Re[2]: floating tow rope > Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 2:50 PM > > Some of the higher end PFDs on the whitewater market are designed with > quick-release cam straps with a large ring in the back to clip in a > tow rope via a biner. The person or boat being towed is clipped into > the tower. If there is a problem, the tower pulls the quick release > cam on the front of the PFD and the ring slides off the strap. > > Have any of you tried this method of towing on open water? If so, what > do you think? If not, what do you think? My whitewater instructors at > NOC all had to where this style PFD and it worked well. > > Dave Miner > david.miner_at_gsbsc.gensig.com > Sarasota, FL > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating tow rope > Author: wanewman_at_uswest.net at Internet2 > Date: 1/29/99 12:27 AM > > > Thanks Mark I agree with your comments about needing a floating line and on > practicing with various systems and techniques so people can get skilled enough > to start a tow quickly in an emergency situation. Don Dimond and I taught a > towing clinic so we had the chance to look into the various towing systems and > techniques in depth. We of course have our own preferences and prejudices so > not everyone will agree with us. We feel that for most Great Lakes paddlers a > 30 to 50 foot tow line is sufficient and longer lines just add more bulk. > However if you think you will be towing in very large seas a line over 50 feet > might be in order. More line gives you more options, but a long line gets > bulky unless you want to compromise by using a small diameter. > > I prefer to only pay out as much line as needed since the more rope there is in > the water the greater the drag and wasted energy. However it is worth noting > that in a following sea you may need to pay out the full length to keep from > getting overtaken by the towed kayak. When heading into the wind a shorter > length is in order. Also you take the emotional state of the person you are > assisting into account - the closer they are to you the better if their > confidence has been shaken. > > I can't stress enough the importance of a shock cord in the system. A friend > of mine towed someone five miles in 10 to 15 foot seas without a shock cord on > his tow line. He said when the boats decided to head down opposite sides of a > wave it felt like being rear-ended in a car accident. He is lucky he did not > peel the deck off his kayak in one of these impacts. The average towing force > is normally less than 10 pounds, so it is the sudden shocks that need to be > damped out of the system - a thicker rope is not needed for greater strength, > but thicker lines are easier to pull on forcefully bare handed, and if rubbed > or frayed they are less likely to part when you need them most ( use as a heavy > a line as you can, as long as it does not get to bulky). > > For long tows a deck mounted rig is less tiring than a waist mount. Keep in > mind a Caribiner is not a suitable quick release since it will not open under > tension. There are some great Cam-cleat deck mount rigs that you can release > one-handed while upside down and disoriented, and most commercial waist tows > have quick release buckles. The big advantage to a waist tow is that unlike a > deck mounted system you can give it to someone else and have them tow you! It > seems like I always end up on the hard work side of the tow line! Although > Caribiners are workable I think they are a bit bulky and can tend to jam after > abuse and exposure to saltwater. I have used some smaller stainless steel > clips that I found in the sailing gear at Boat US ( Halyard clips???) which are > a bit expensive, but seem to be just the ticket. > > Mark Stirling wrote: > > > I strongly suggest that people get out there and try out a few tow > > ropes. I have both 100" foot homemade and a 60 foot Northwater > > systems towrope. Both are equipped with stainless caribiners at each > > end and floats. A sinking rope is next to useless in rough > > conditions. Clearly someone needing towing is likely incapacitated > > and reaching into the water to pick up a sinking line puts that person > > at greater than necessary risk of capsize. The concept of the biner is > > that you can paddle past the distressed kayak and clip it on almost > > instantly without fuss. The strain actually comes on gradually not > > with any sudden jerk if your towline is of reasonable length. The > > lines I'm using are of 7/16" and 1/2" diameter and the strength is > > more than adequate. The primary consideration is handling. The > > length to be paid out is to allow the towed kayak to be at the same > > relative position on its wave as the kayak towing. This minimizes > > stress and makes towing any distance much easier. I use an around the > > waist belt attachment with quick release buckle. I have seem some > > deck mounted arrangements but have been doubtful about their quick > > release ability which may be necessary in surf etc. I believe a quick > > release arrangement to be superior to the "weak link" concepts > > proposed. Again the best way is to get out in expected conditions > > somewhere safe (i.e. safe beach with onshore wind in rough conditions) > > and practice so you can use your rescue systems with ease and > > confidence. > > > > Mark > > *************************************************************************** > > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > > *************************************************************************** > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > ***************************************************************************R eceived: from xtranet-qe1.gensig.com ([206.231.19.17]) by SMTP2.GENSIG.com with > SMTP > (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise) id 000ABB7A; Thu, 28 Jan 99 14:16:30 > -0500 > Received: from ns1.intelenet.net ([204.182.160.31]) by xtranet-qe1.gensig.com > via smtpd (for smtp2.gensig.com [206.231.19.18]) with SMTP; 28 Jan > 1999 19:16:41 UT > Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) > by ns1.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09841 > Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:24:29 -0800 (PST) > Received: from ns.intelenet.net (intelenet.net [204.182.160.1]) > by ns1.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09836 > Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:24:13 -0800 (PST) > From: wanewman_at_uswest.net > Received: from mplspop2.mpls.uswest.net (mplspop2.mpls.uswest.net > [204.147.80.4]) > by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA14634 > for <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net>; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:24:11 -0800 (PST) > Received: (qmail 21771 invoked by alias); 28 Jan 1999 18:23:58 -0000 > Delivered-To: fixup-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net_at_fixme > Received: (qmail 21712 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jan 1999 18:23:56 -0000 > Received: from dialupe216.mpls.uswest.net (HELO pop.mpls.uswest.net) > (207.225.144.216) > by mplspop2.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 18:23:56 -0000 > Message-ID: <36B154B7.E3C8886D_at_pop.mpls.uswest.net> > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:27:03 -0600 > Reply-To: wanewman_at_uswest.net > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: Mark Stirling <msti_at_istar.ca> > CC: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] floating tow rope > References: <36b1e6e3.5473221_at_mail.istar.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Precedence: list > X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List > X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/28/99 3:03:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, David.Miner_at_gsbsc.gensig.com writes: << Have any of you tried this method of towing on open water? If so, what do you think? >> The system on the Lotus "Strait Jacket" --- essentially what you describe --- works very well. Easy to tow an incapacitated buddy in bigger water, safe, low profile. Don't overlook "contact towing", described in a recent Sea Kayaker article. Also very effective and useful --- not as much in big water --- in most incapacitated paddler situations, and we're only talking one meter of three mil line and two stainless steel clips. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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