In a message dated 2/5/99 1:27:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, grindol_at_my- dejanews.com writes: << Does anyone have experience using the Fuzzy Rubber made by Malden Mills and sold by Rapidstyle ( http://www.erols.com/rapids/) ? Can these be used in place of a wetsuit or would a wetsuit still be required? I know that on the web site they say that it is the equivalent of 2.5mm neoprene but I'm looking for some real world experience. >> Mel, first I'd have to separate out Malden Mills Rubberized Thermal Stretch (read: "Fuzzy Rubber", "Otter Skin" and a lot of other attempts at product differentiation) from Dana Chladek's Rapidstyle company --- I like the second and not the first. Dana's shop is a great addition to the Washington area paddling community, and her stuff is top notch. I'm not so convinced about the Rubberized Thermal Stretch stuff. I have a farmer john made of the stuff --- not by Rapidstyle --- and the material itself seems pretty fragile to me. Light, snaggable, almost too thin. And then there's Malden Mills Thermal Stretch --- not rubberized, used to be called Polartec 2000S. It's more robust, heavier weight, with an outer layer of lycra. Doesn't snag as easily, and, in the water, has the same thermal characteristics as the Rubberized stuff. Where the newer rubber coated material shows a big benefit is in its evaporative cooling protection, but that's only good if it's the outside layer, and see above about its fragility. As to thermal protection, I'd agree with earlier respondents --- either the rubberized or non-rubberized stuff has about the same thermal protection at the surface as two mm or <maybe> three mm neoprene --- probably closer to two. (As a dive suit, an earlier Polartec 2000S full jumpsuit [which I also have] sold as a dive suit was not well received by the diving community, I'm told, because it compressed with depth and lost most of its thermal efficiency.) You probably can't increase its thermal efficiency very much by wearing insulation under it --- just creates more dead-water space, but the layer controlling it is the same. Maybe, hard to call. But, as an earlier post reported, wearing even a thin (two mil) neoprene shortjohn over it protects the core, and, for me, made it swimmable in water a little under 40 degrees F. for about a half hour with no adverse conditions --- other than being pretty damned cold! It's easily survivable under those conditions, and that's what counts. I know of three smaller producers of paddling related clothing who aren't particularly happy with the Rubberized Thermal Stretch material, and I'm a less than happy customer. But the regular old Thermal Stretch is pretty good for our purposes, makes a great liner for a dry suit --- and would provide survivability in cold water in a situation where getting tossed out of your boat also compromised a seal or zipper in a dry suit (my worst case scenario) since the liner also serves as a wetsuit. That doesn't happen with any other thermal wear if the dry suit fails --- too much water, too much flushing. Interesting stuff, but I'd stay with the older material, and I'd take that stuff way over neoprene. (A hood of either Rubberized or conventional Thermal Stretch is a wonderful improvement to a neoprene hood, as well.) Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: > > Mel, first I'd have to separate out Malden Mills Rubberized Thermal Stretch > (read: "Fuzzy Rubber", "Otter Skin" and a lot of other attempts at product > differentiation) from Dana Chladek's Rapidstyle company --- I like the second > and not the first. Dana's shop is a great addition to the Washington area > paddling community, and her stuff is top notch. I'm not so convinced about > the Rubberized Thermal Stretch stuff. I have a farmer john made of the stuff > --- not by Rapidstyle --- and the material itself seems pretty fragile to me. > Light, snaggable, almost too thin. And then there's Malden Mills Thermal > Stretch --- not rubberized, used to be called Polartec 2000S. It's more > robust, heavier weight, with an outer layer of lycra. Doesn't snag as easily, > and, in the water, has the same thermal characteristics as the Rubberized > stuff. Where the newer rubber coated material shows a big benefit is in its > evaporative cooling protection, but that's only good if it's the outside > layer, and see above about its fragility. > I have it direct from Dana that Rapidstyle uses Malden Mills fabric for what she calls "Polartec Thermal Stretch" I have a shirt of the stuff and am very fond of it. I do whitewater in mine as a top layer when it's not freezing, and I haven't scuffed it yet. You actually staf pretty dry in it, which would not be true of P2000S. Here's where it's mentioned on their web site http://www.erols.com/rapids/Products.htm Steve -- Test Scoring & Reporting Services Sometimes, you never can University of Georgia always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593 least expect the most. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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