Note: The following was cc'ed to Greg last night, but didn't go through to Paddlewise list for some reason. Please disregard this posting response if you are a normal person :-) On Mon, 08 Mar 1999 23:35:46 -0500, Greg Hollingsworth wrote: I had the opportunity to test out my skills in some difficult conditions this Sunday... winds were 27 knots with frequent gusts that reached 37 knots <big snip> the new boat (NordKapp) turns downwind in these conditions <snip> My question is: after pointing downwind I found that I had a devil of a time getting the boat heading upwind again <snip> What's the secret to making turns easier? Greg, et al: There is no easy answer, though I'm sure you will get some sent your way. In the portion I snipped from your message, you indicated all the normal techniques. I've been paddling my Nordkapp in storm conditions for the last twenty years, here on the West Coast of Vancouver Island and Southern portions. Here are some points to consider, and they are my *own* observations based on empirical evidence from on-water experience. 1. An effective sweep stroke requires a longer paddle, say 230cm. High wind paddling requires fast, rapid forward paddling, which contraindicates the use of the longer paddle, as a 215cm paddle provides the forward propulsion necessary. 2. Effective storm paddling boat control and turning back into the wind requires a large blade surface area. However, sustained paddling usually benefits from a narrower blade, which tends to preserve joints and tendons, so this again causes some contra indicators. 3. It is easier to paddle forward in high winds with an un feathered blade, yet beam onto the wind, the unfeatherd blade can catch side gusts and literally flip you over. The contraindication? Forward sweeps can expose the feathered blade to the aforementioned wind. 4. At thirty to fourty knots, forward sweep turns require a lot of muscle power. Working out at the gym or spending the storm season actually paddling elevates the potential for successe. (Normally strength is not an overriding issue in our sport). 5. Turning on waves can help, but usually more boat is exposed, defeating the effect. I normally find this technique of using waves works only when on a forward course, where it is utilized to aid corrective action to maintain a course, but just slight changes that have to be constant (unless you have a rudder). 6. If I get blown downwind, I may go with it a while, if there is sea-room or sea-way. You can expand a lot of energy trying to get back into the wind, and it quickly becomes exhausting. Run with it for a bit. When a lull hits, your pent up energy is unleashed, and a turn can be completed. 7. Use reverse sweeps. Use reverse sweeps. Use reverse...Reverse sweeps utilize the powerful upper arm muscles {carry a can of spinach :-)}. Get some speed up backwards and then combine with a few forward sweeps, leaning or edging the boat on its side where more rocker is apparent (false rocker). This is where you might use an advantageous wave. 8. Sweep strokes in general are best performed by reaching as far back or as far forward as possible, close to the hull, blade firmly in water, and blade as vertical as possible and conditions allow. Sweep in as wide an arc as possible. Fully extend the paddle as far as possible. You can also shift hand position to maximize extension, but watch you don't overextend your elbow. (Greg, I realize you may already know all this). 9. In bigger seas, you can find a wind-shadow in a trough, often big enough to execute a turn. Also, just a pointer, reported wind speeds are usually not as high over the first few feet of air, as they are at the reporting elevation. 10. A skegged Nordkapp can be a death trap in high winds. I'm not talking about the drop skeg that you actuate, but the built-in keel that runs all the way to the stern for a couple of feet. It acts as a pivot point in high winds. Combined with the high bow, it may be impossible to turn. I've seen novices blow out of control in 25 knot winds. Undeniably, the skegged Nordkapp is much more pretty than the standard hull model, so look cool as you smash onto that lee shore! The newer Nordkapps (Jubilee) are a bit less dramatic in the keel. I can paddle up to 50 knots (only 30 on open sea unless running with it, then higher), and I would not be alive today if I did not own a standard hull Nordkapp. The loss of tracking is made up for by the addition of a rudder, in my case. 11.I hate rudders, but have to run one as stated. I only use it in extreme seas, normally. A rudder does give you a wider margine of options for turning and holding a course without tireing prematurely. Trouble is, most rudders are only good for turning and course correction for people who don't want to learn how to paddle, or for poorly designed kayaks (sometimes). For a rudder to be truly effective, most models need to be 3 to 6 inches longer. This creates more drag for the lazy user, but the extreme wind paddler will not notice *any* drag. Now, with more rudder in the water in following seas or where maximum rudder control is needed, the longer rudder excels. (I can catch big wind waves, without broaching, and shoot past my skegged friends). I can paddle downwind when blown downwind, then hit rudder right or rudder left and carve back into the wind. 12.You need weight in the kayak. Lead weights, etc, work well. Whatever you use, it must be secure when you roll. I had a bag break loose one day. Fortunately, it flopped over to the side I needed to lean toward for holding course. Expedition boats like the Nordkapp are designed to run with a load. 13.I experimented in the early eighties, during the two years of El Nino winter storms. One storm hit 90 knots (about 80 knots at surface) The fetch from Seattle up Haro Straight to Vancouver Island's, Island View Beach, limited the wave height, but was still impossible to get out. I moved over to Canoe Cove, estimating wind at about 65 knots. I loaded up the Nordkapp with 300 lbs of rocks, secured in place with gear bags and towels (and I wonder why my seams split now and again). The boat sagged fiercely from the concentrated weight amidship. Getting some speed up, I punched out from behind the lee protection of some rocks. It took a few times, but eventually I could keep the nose pointed into the wind. As the seas grew bigger, the Nordkapp barely rode over the waves, rather plowing through them. While forward momentum was possible, blinding spray and not wanting to die a virgin, I turned back. I tried turning back into the wind, but it was impossible. I don't know what the limit is, but 40 knots must be approaching the thresholds. The storm last week where I split the seams on my old Nordkapp, were gusting to 60 knots. I could not turn once out off the breakwater, and was washed up onto the logs in the surf. 14. Storm paddlers living in Victoria (there are a few of us, I'm one of the few vocal ones, most living in anonymity, far from earshot of the legislators) mostly run British kayaks, though the Current Designs Gulf Stream, and some of the Necky kayaks get out a fair bit. The CD GTS sees a fair bit of action too. P&H boats are very popular. The funniest guys to watch are the whitewater kayaks: As they approach a wave crest in high winds, they spin back downwind, heading back to the surf where they belong. A local newspaper ran a story on strange wintertime activities, which included, you guessed it - kayak storm paddling. Hope the politicians missed that one :-) 15.Last point. High wind paddling is dangerous. Don't combine it with tide - you may die. Go for fast tide, or, high wind for your jollies. Wind against tide is the most fun paddling there is, surfing standing waves, etc, but save it for moderate conditions. High wind paddling is hard on the body. I've had three shoulder surgeries, and often suffer pain during normal touring trips due to the prior seasons storm paddling. The Tsunami Rangers romanticize high wind, rough water paddling, but the realities can be a little more painful. Some food for thought. [Added thought to above resend as of March 9, 1999. I was blown off the Brooks Peninsula a few years ago in a 40 knot gale by offshore winds. I paddled as hard as I could, but the further I got out, the more fetch was apparent, and the stronger the wind got, providing a deteriorating situation. I eventually could not turn into it anymore. I had paddled many years in wind speeds much higher, but not *against* this velocity on the open coast. I was humbled quickly (took ten miles of ferry glidding at an angle to reach shore). On a different side of the Brooks Peninsula, on a different trip, I was held at bay by 30 knot winds coming out of a valley. There was no "sea", just almost flat water and the "blast furnace". I was even more humbled. The equation depends on variables, of which wind is only one of them. PS To all the PaddlerWisers who live on the eastern seaboard of North America, where offshore wind is a common reality, hats off to ya for the skill and judgement you must need. We only get the odd Squamish type of offshore wind, which is easy to avoid). Doug Lloyd Victoria BC Canada *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
A number of suggestions have been posted re Greg Hollingsworth's original question. Here's my input: 1. Some mentioned turning on the tops of waves. This is most effective on peaked chop, but can be thwarted by higher winds. In some boats, I have experienced fair success by sweeping as the boat approaches the wave top, then edging the boat on the side opposite the sweep as the bow drops down the opposite side of the wave. This is a lean opposite to a normal edged turn, like edging across an eddy line, leaning into the center of the turn. Its like skiing moguls, where you just crank your knees into the turn as your skis drop over the tops. Like I said, this has worked for me in some, but not all boats and conditions, and I have never figured out what dynamics made it work. Any thoughts on this? 2. Nobody mentioned the old sailors trick of turning 270 when you can't effectively turn into or through the wind. Can't make it go right? Turn left (the wrong way) and come all the way around until you are on the desired course. 3. Try turning the bow instead of the stern. Doug Lloyd said that the Modified-Hull Nordkapp (the one with the deep fixed-skeg hull shape) can be a death trap in high winds. When I paddled that boat, the ONLY way I could turn it without an Act of Congress, 200 meters sea room and way more time than I ever had between waves, was to get it up to speed and use a bow-rudder, bow- draw combination. The bow end was loose enough to turn, while the stern was way too stiff. Usually, only whitewater kayakers know how to do bow-control strokes in this neck of the woods, but they work well on sea kayaks and are a great tool to have at hand. 4. If your boat has an adjustable skeg, this is the reason it is there. If a skegged boat pulls downwind, raise the skeg a little bit at a time until the boat handling is balanced. If a skegged boat pulls or turns upwind, lower the skeg a little bit at a time until the boat handling is balanced. The secret is to not make gross adjustments. FWIW, Harold So. Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Doug, Wow! thanks for your excellent post on storm paddling. I admire your experience and knowledge in storm conditions. I personally have yet to really test my limits on the sea, and I hope that when I do, it turns out well in the end. I have a question for you, and also, a comment or two on your post (scroll down for these). One question, is have you ever had trouble eskimo rolling in those really big winds? I have a hard time imagining being unable to sucessfully roll even after repeated attempts on both sides, but I don't want to learn about this first hand if I can help it. I remember your Sea Kayaker safety article, but didn't you have a broken paddle? Also, there is Deep Trouble article where some kayakers with decent rolls were unable to roll in a Squamish wind, but it seemed that their rolls really were not bombproof. How violent does the open ocean get compared to the surf zone or the river? A second question, is do you think it is feasible to turn a kayak that is upside down when wind prevents turning when upright? I am suggesting turning a kayak by deliberately capsizing and using underwater sweeps, and then rolling back up. I think this may be possible, but I have not tried it yet. Thanks, kevin ___________________ / Kevin Whilden \ |Dept. of Geosciences \___ |University of Washington \ |kwhilden_at_u.washington.edu| \________________________/ On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, inetex wrote: > Note: The following was cc'ed to Greg last night, but didn't go through to > Paddlewise list for some reason. Please disregard this posting response if > you are a normal person :-) > > On Mon, 08 Mar 1999 23:35:46 -0500, Greg Hollingsworth wrote: > > I had the opportunity to test out my skills in some difficult conditions > this Sunday... winds were 27 knots with frequent gusts that reached 37 > knots <big snip> the new boat (NordKapp) turns downwind in these conditions > <snip> > My question is: after pointing downwind I found that I had a devil of a > time getting the boat heading upwind again <snip> What's the secret to > making turns easier? > > Greg, et al: > > There is no easy answer, though I'm sure you will get some sent your way. > In the portion I snipped from your message, you indicated all the normal > techniques. I've been paddling my Nordkapp in storm conditions for the last > twenty years, here on the West Coast of Vancouver Island and Southern > portions. Here are some points to consider, and they are my *own* > observations based on empirical evidence from on-water experience. > > 1. An effective sweep stroke requires a longer paddle, say 230cm. High wind > paddling requires fast, rapid forward paddling, which contraindicates the > use of the longer paddle, as a 215cm paddle provides the forward propulsion > necessary. > Here is where a sliding stroke is really good, as I think you mentioned below. A Greenland style paddle is made for this. It allows for effortless changing of the effective sweeping length of the paddle. I think Greenland paddles are great storm paddles. > 2. Effective storm paddling boat control and turning back into the wind > requires a large blade surface area. However, sustained paddling usually > benefits from a narrower blade, which tends to preserve joints and tendons, > so this again causes some contra indicators. Again, a Greenland paddle, with its small blade and lifting surface is a great comprimise between stress on the joints and propulsive power. > > 3. It is easier to paddle forward in high winds with an un feathered blade, > yet beam onto the wind, the unfeatherd blade can catch side gusts and > literally flip you over. The contraindication? Forward sweeps can expose > the feathered blade to the aforementioned wind. > In the first two sentences, did you mistakenly use the term un-feathered? It seems to me that you are describing a feathered paddle. > 4. At thirty to fourty knots, forward sweep turns require a lot of muscle > power. Working out at the gym or spending the storm season actually > paddling elevates the potential for successe. (Normally strength is not an > overriding issue in our sport). > > 5. Turning on waves can help, but usually more boat is exposed, defeating > the effect. I normally find this technique of using waves works only when > on a forward course, where it is utilized to aid corrective action to > maintain a course, but just slight changes that have to be constant (unless > you have a rudder). > > 6. If I get blown downwind, I may go with it a while, if there is sea-room > or sea-way. You can expand a lot of energy trying to get back into the > wind, and it quickly becomes exhausting. Run with it for a bit. When a lull > hits, your pent up energy is unleashed, and a turn can be completed. > > 7. Use reverse sweeps. Use reverse sweeps. Use reverse...Reverse sweeps > utilize the powerful upper arm muscles {carry a can of spinach :-)}. Get > some speed up backwards and then combine with a few forward sweeps, leaning > or edging the boat on its side where more rocker is apparent (false > rocker). This is where you might use an advantageous wave. > > 8. Sweep strokes in general are best performed by reaching as far back or > as far forward as possible, close to the hull, blade firmly in water, and > blade as vertical as possible and conditions allow. Sweep in as wide an arc > as possible. Fully extend the paddle as far as possible. You can also shift > hand position to maximize extension, but watch you don't overextend your > elbow. (Greg, I realize you may already know all this). > > 9. In bigger seas, you can find a wind-shadow in a trough, often big enough > to execute a turn. Also, just a pointer, reported wind speeds are usually > not as high over the first few feet of air, as they are at the reporting > elevation. > > 10. A skegged Nordkapp can be a death trap in high winds. I'm not talking > about the drop skeg that you actuate, but the built-in keel that runs all > the way to the stern for a couple of feet. It acts as a pivot point in high > winds. Combined with the high bow, it may be impossible to turn. I've seen > novices blow out of control in 25 knot winds. Undeniably, the skegged > Nordkapp is much more pretty than the standard hull model, so look cool as > you smash onto that lee shore! The newer Nordkapps (Jubilee) are a bit less > dramatic in the keel. I can paddle up to 50 knots (only 30 on open sea > unless running with it, then higher), and I would not be alive today if I > did not own a standard hull Nordkapp. The loss of tracking is made up for > by the addition of a rudder, in my case. > > 11.I hate rudders, but have to run one as stated. I only use it in extreme > seas, normally. A rudder does give you a wider margine of options for > turning and holding a course without tireing prematurely. Trouble is, most > rudders are only good for turning and course correction for people who > don't want to learn how to paddle, or for poorly designed kayaks > (sometimes). For a rudder to be truly effective, most models need to be 3 > to 6 inches longer. This creates more drag for the lazy user, but the > extreme wind paddler will not notice *any* drag. Now, with more rudder in > the water in following seas or where maximum rudder control is needed, the > longer rudder excels. (I can catch big wind waves, without broaching, and > shoot past my skegged friends). I can paddle downwind when blown downwind, > then hit rudder right or rudder left and carve back into the wind. > > 12.You need weight in the kayak. Lead weights, etc, work well. Whatever you > use, it must be secure when you roll. I had a bag break loose one day. > Fortunately, it flopped over to the side I needed to lean toward for > holding course. Expedition boats like the Nordkapp are designed to run with > a load. Can you explain a little more why weights are necessary. It seems to me that any excess weight will just impede control. Perhaps this is something to do with your hull, and not something in general. I think that's it for my comments. Thanks again! > > 13.I experimented in the early eighties, during the two years of El Nino > winter storms. One storm hit 90 knots (about 80 knots at surface) The fetch > from Seattle up Haro Straight to Vancouver Island's, Island View Beach, > limited the wave height, but was still impossible to get out. I moved over > to Canoe Cove, estimating wind at about 65 knots. I loaded up the Nordkapp > with 300 lbs of rocks, secured in place with gear bags and towels (and I > wonder why my seams split now and again). The boat sagged fiercely from the > concentrated weight amidship. Getting some speed up, I punched out from > behind the lee protection of some rocks. It took a few times, but > eventually I could keep the nose pointed into the wind. As the seas grew > bigger, the Nordkapp barely rode over the waves, rather plowing through > them. While forward momentum was possible, blinding spray and not wanting > to die a virgin, I turned back. I tried turning back into the wind, but it > was impossible. I don't know what the limit is, but 40 knots must be > approaching the thresholds. The storm last week where I split the seams on > my old Nordkapp, were gusting to 60 knots. I could not turn once out off > the breakwater, and was washed up onto the logs in the surf. > > 14. Storm paddlers living in Victoria (there are a few of us, I'm one of > the few vocal ones, most living in anonymity, far from earshot of the > legislators) mostly run British kayaks, though the Current Designs Gulf > Stream, and some of the Necky kayaks get out a fair bit. The CD GTS sees a > fair bit of action too. P&H boats are very popular. The funniest guys to > watch are the whitewater kayaks: As they approach a wave crest in high > winds, they spin back downwind, heading back to the surf where they belong. > A local newspaper ran a story on strange wintertime activities, which > included, you guessed it - kayak storm paddling. Hope the politicians > missed that one :-) > > 15.Last point. High wind paddling is dangerous. Don't combine it with tide > - you may die. Go for fast tide, or, high wind for your jollies. Wind > against tide is the most fun paddling there is, surfing standing waves, > etc, but save it for moderate conditions. High wind paddling is hard on the > body. I've had three shoulder surgeries, and often suffer pain during > normal touring trips due to the prior seasons storm paddling. The Tsunami > Rangers romanticize high wind, rough water paddling, but the realities can > be a little more painful. Some food for thought. > > [Added thought to above resend as of March 9, 1999. I was blown off the > Brooks Peninsula a few years ago in a 40 knot gale by offshore winds. I > paddled as hard as I could, but the further I got out, the more fetch was > apparent, and the stronger the wind got, providing a deteriorating > situation. I eventually could not turn into it anymore. I had paddled many > years in wind speeds much higher, but not *against* this velocity on the > open coast. I was humbled quickly (took ten miles of ferry glidding at an > angle to reach shore). On a different side of the Brooks Peninsula, on a > different trip, I was held at bay by 30 knot winds coming out of a valley. > There was no "sea", just almost flat water and the "blast furnace". I was > even more humbled. The equation depends on variables, of which wind is only > one of them. PS To all the PaddlerWisers who live on the eastern seaboard > of North America, where offshore wind is a common reality, hats off to ya > for the skill and judgement you must need. We only get the odd Squamish > type of offshore wind, which is easy to avoid). > > Doug Lloyd > Victoria BC > Canada > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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