Thanks Ralph & Hohn for the feedback. Looks like safety and economy dictate some serious modifications. I've also just been told that the latest KlepperA Expedition comes with toggles not handles for just the reasons Ralph describes. Might contact Klepper to see if there is a modification kit - does anyone know of one? PeterO (Australia) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Peter wrote; >I've read that toggle handles at the bow and stern of a kayak are safer than >loops. That if you are holding the loop and a kayak rolls in the surf there >can be problems with trapping fingers or hands. Are there any opinions on >this and in particular would the Klepper expedition kayak, be susceptible? >Or are its loops sufficiently wide to preclude the problem. I had a near scare with handles a few years ago when the boat I bailed out of in surf started to spin and trapped my fingers between the handle and the boat. Now I use handles that spin freely so the boat can do anything it wants without endangering my hands. I follow these rules regarding handles now. 1. Place them as close to the end of the boat as possible. 2. No rudders. 3. Use only free spinning handles. 4. Use wire connections to the boat not rope. Maybe a bit of overkill but the thought of my soft little hands being smooshed between boat and handle plus the thought of not being able to let go sends shivers down my spine. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
From: "John Winters" <735769_at_ican.net> To: <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety - Loop vs Toggle Handles Date sent: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:20:15 -0500 What sort of swivel arrangement do you use, John? Is this kind of hardware available in boating supply houses? Looks like a really good idea. Jack Martin > > I had a near scare with handles a few years ago when the boat I bailed out > of in surf started to spin and trapped my fingers between the handle and > the boat. Now I use handles that spin freely so the boat can do anything it > wants without endangering my hands. > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph What about the loops on the Feathercraft K-Light? Any recommendations? Alice Bennett -----Original Message----- From: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety - Loop vs Toggle Handles >Peter Osman wrote: >> >> Hi, >> I've read that toggle handles at the bow and stern of a kayak are safer than >> loops. That if you are holding the loop and a kayak rolls in the surf there >> can be problems with trapping fingers or hands. Are there any opinions on >> this and in particular would the Klepper expedition kayak, be susceptible? >> Or are its loops sufficiently wide to preclude the problem. >> >> PeterO (Australia) > >STOP whatever you are doing. Get out your Klepper. Cut those handles >off and singe the remaining threads. That handle will pull out and >leave a hole at the seam. The handles are okay for a straight up pull >but if they are pulled at an angle, such as dragging on to a beach, they >will eventually pull out. If you have a Klepper made since about 1992 >or so, run a toggle handle through the metal part of the deck fitting. >Commercial ones are available or you can devise your own using a >plumbing pipe 45 degree elbow. Otherwise get some D-ring on hypalon >patches and adhere these to the hypalon at the bow and stern. Run >webbing from them to form a handle. > >ralph diaz >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter >PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 >Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com >"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Alice J Bennett wrote: > > Ralph > What about the loops on the Feathercraft K-Light? Any recommendations? > Alice Bennett > They are not prone to pull out; I certainly have _not_ ever seen any pulled out as I have on Kleppers. The only thing with the handles on the K-Light is avoid using them to carry the boat. It is so easy not to bother with them by just reaching under for the carry. The reason I say avoid using the handles is that I think the stressing of the stitches there lead to leakage into the boat. Leakage in a Feathercraft is a hit-and-miss thing. Two boats of the same model might behave differently. My gut tells me that over-using the handles may be a factor. best, ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Jack wrote; What sort of swivel arrangement do you use, John? Is this kind of hardware available in boating supply houses? Looks like a really good idea. I use the Jack Holt trapeze handles (HA 60) available at most dinghy supply shops. very light and fit the hands nicely. Ronstan also makes a similar handle as does Sea Sure. West marine sells (sold?) a Ronstan clone on page 842 of 1998 master catalogue. Item # 188724. The blue color may turn you off. ;-). The RWO handle won't work as it won't swivel. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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