Letter sent to many outfitters from Michael Pardy in Victoria at ORS on March 5th, 1999. Mike's letter to all of us reads.... "As you may or may not know, the Coast Guard, through the offices of the Western Marine Community Association, is planning to levy a $25 fee per kayak and/or canoe for all commercial operators in BC. I have talked to Rick Bryant who is the Regional Director of the Pacific Region of the Canadian Coast Guard. It is their intention to collect this fee, but they are willing to engage in a "consultative process" (whatever that means) before making a final decision. We need to speak with a clear voice on this issue. In preliminary talks with a few people in the industry, the opinion is unanimous; this fee is unacceptable. The fee is in place to support Aids to Navigation. Kayaks do use Aids to Navigation but the quality and kind of use is quite different between kayaks, and power and sail boats. Kayaks and canoes are currently lumped together with other small power and sail vessels. We need to be clear about our special needs and make sure the Coast Guard is making informed and knowledgeable decisions on behalf of the sea kayaking community. My concerns are as follows: 1.The fees are onerous, especially on the heels of new equipment regulations 2. The fees were applied without direct representation from the commercial sea kayak community. 3. The fees, as they stand now, will not be applied equally to all kayak outfitters and operators because the Coast Guard doesn't have a comprehensive list of operators. Those of us on the list will pay, but others would be overlooked. 4. Kayak operators and outfitters have large fleets and would be penalized in relation to other kinds of fleets. ie we have more boats. I am sure there are other concerns as well. We need to raise our voice. The relavent contact numbers are below. If you would like more information, call the Western Marine Community Association (WMCA) or the Coast Guard. I would like you to: pass this on to other outfitters; write, phone, or email the Coast Guard and the WMCA let your industry associations know you feel. ie the Alliance and the Association etc.. let me know how you feel " Western Marine Community Assocation Box 12080 Harbour Centre 1520-555 West Hastings Street Vancouver BC V6B 4N4 phone 604 684-1332 fax 604 684-2263 Canadian Coast Guard c/o Rick Bryant Regional Director Pacific Region phone 604 775-8877 email bryantr_at_dfo-mpo.gc.ca TO'KI: The Ocean Kayak Institute Inc. David Blacoe, President 1919 Billings Rd, Sooke, B.C., V0S-1N0 (250) 642-2159 web site: http:// www.islandnet.com/~toki *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Personally a fee like this wouldn't bother me. Outfitters should be levied a fee for using our resources. I do have some reservations as to the price, I think it should be lower than the $25.00 mentioned. I also think an extra levy should be set on foreign companies coming into the country also. What do people think about this? K.Stevens -----Original Message----- From: toki [SMTP:toki_at_islandnet.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 1999 7:36 AM To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Cc: CRCA - geldart - SK subcommittee; CRCA Richard Wilson; CRCA Tom Brown Subject: [Paddlewise] Marine Service Fee - $25.00 per kayak Letter sent to many outfitters from Michael Pardy in Victoria at ORS on March 5th, 1999. Mike's letter to all of us reads.... "As you may or may not know, the Coast Guard, through the offices of the Western Marine Community Association, is planning to levy a $25 fee per kayak and/or canoe for all commercial operators in BC. I have talked to Rick Bryant who is the Regional Director of the Pacific Region of the Canadian Coast Guard. It is their intention to collect this fee, but they are willing to engage in a "consultative process" (whatever that means) before making a final decision. We need to speak with a clear voice on this issue. In preliminary talks with a few people in the industry, the opinion is unanimous; this fee is unacceptable. The fee is in place to support Aids to Navigation. Kayaks do use Aids to Navigation but the quality and kind of use is quite different between kayaks, and power and sail boats. Kayaks and canoes are currently lumped together with other small power and sail vessels. We need to be clear about our special needs and make sure the Coast Guard is making informed and knowledgeable decisions on behalf of the sea kayaking community. My concerns are as follows: 1.The fees are onerous, especially on the heels of new equipment regulations 2. The fees were applied without direct representation from the commercial sea kayak community. 3. The fees, as they stand now, will not be applied equally to all kayak outfitters and operators because the Coast Guard doesn't have a comprehensive list of operators. Those of us on the list will pay, but others would be overlooked. 4. Kayak operators and outfitters have large fleets and would be penalized in relation to other kinds of fleets. ie we have more boats. I am sure there are other concerns as well. We need to raise our voice. The relavent contact numbers are below. If you would like more information, call the Western Marine Community Association (WMCA) or the Coast Guard. I would like you to: pass this on to other outfitters; write, phone, or email the Coast Guard and the WMCA let your industry associations know you feel. ie the Alliance and the Association etc.. let me know how you feel " Western Marine Community Assocation Box 12080 Harbour Centre 1520-555 West Hastings Street Vancouver BC V6B 4N4 phone 604 684-1332 fax 604 684-2263 Canadian Coast Guard c/o Rick Bryant Regional Director Pacific Region phone 604 775-8877 email bryantr_at_dfo-mpo.gc.ca TO'KI: The Ocean Kayak Institute Inc. David Blacoe, President 1919 Billings Rd, Sooke, B.C., V0S-1N0 (250) 642-2159 web site: http:// www.islandnet.com/~toki << File: ATT00000.html >> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Product Information Department wrote: > > At 09:16 AM 3/6/99 -0800, Kirby wrote: > > Personally a fee like this wouldn't bother me. Outfitters should be levied a > > fee for using our resources. I do have some reservations as to the price, > > I think it should be lower than the CDN$25.00 [per year] mentioned. > > What do people think about this? > I have to accept it principle in order to be logically consistent: I try to > act like a "real" boat when I'm at sea and get indignant when other boats > ignore the rules of the road and "cut me off". [snip] > > > I also think an extra levy should be set on foreign companies > > coming into the country also. > I like the idea in principle-there are several American companies who bring > their own kayaks and paying customers into Canada, but I'm not sure a > separate rate for non-Canadian companies would withstand a NAFTA challenge. [snip] Most communities regard the "economic benefit" from tourism as sufficient to override the demands tourists place on the local public safety apparatus: fire control, police protection, Coast Guard, rescue personnel, etc. In addition, many provinces and states tax tourists through a sales tax, in part to exact a tribute from transient tourists. [Oregon does not have a sales tax, but we are weird!] That said, I'd willingly pay my share of any provincial or national service fee/boat tax, what-have-you, in Canada, Mexico, or anyplace else ... IF the money went toward supporting my activity: sea kayaking. Yeah, sure, we get rescued (rarely, and at generally little expense), but by far the most costly item here or in any other locality except the bush is ... water access! Yup. That boat ramp or that city or county park where you slide into the water. Talk to the folks who are in charge of the local parks system about the cost of portapotties, trash pickup, ramp maintenance, and so forth. Support for parks is so poor in my county, that the State had to conduct an audit of the County because the County was not using pass-through State money properly -- they shuffled it away from paying for winter portapotty service! (Picture a busy boat ramp at an isolated location without a portapotty for four months: hepatitis, hepatitis! Excavating for a mine!) Even in remote areas of BC, water access can be problematical, with access roads maintained by voodoo and the midnight bulldozer, I think -- who pays for that? In addition, how much of the revenue from timber taken under a Timber License actually gets used to support recreation? I suspect the revenue stream from a "yak tax" of CDN$25/boat/year is negligible. Sounds like an annoyance tax to me. But, I'd pay it willingly, if ... -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR happy Oregon taxpayer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > In addition, many provinces and states tax tourists through a sales > tax, in part to exact a tribute from transient tourists. As a further incentive for Americans and others to visit Canada and take advantage of our miniscule dollar and great waterways, let me point out that most, if not all, provinces allow for the refund of sales taxes when you return to your home country (or province). They don't tell you this loudly, but you can get a form that allows you to send in for a rebate. Canadians requesting out-of-province rebates technically are required to voluntarily submit the tax in their home province as an "import" but I've yet to meet a person who did. I've never requested an out of province rebate and consider it a "tip" for the tremendous hospitality usually enjoyed. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Daly wrote: >As a further incentive for Americans and others to visit Canada and >take advantage of our miniscule dollar and great waterways, let >me point out that most, if not all, provinces allow for the refund of >sales taxes when you return to your home country (or province). >They don't tell you this loudly, but you can get a form that allows >you to send in for a rebate. Our experience (as Americans) with the above mentioned refund is that it has never amounted to enough to do us enough good to bother filling out the form and submitting it. We often spend a few thousand dollars, but many services are excluded, which is what we mostly spend money on on such trips to Canada. Any others have the same experience? Hank Hays Lightning Paddles *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:04 PM 3/8/99 -0800, Dave wrote: > >Most communities regard the "economic benefit" from tourism as sufficient >to override the demands tourists place on the local public safety >apparatus: fire control, police protection, Coast Guard, rescue personnel, >etc. Okay, let me preface these remarks with the following qualifications, so you know this is not a "Yankees go home" diatribe: 1. My mom was American. (The only reason I didn't opt for a dual Canadian-American passport was at the time I had to chose, there was that unpleasantness going on in Vietnam that I would have been asked to participate in.) 2. Some of my best friends are American. 3. I even speak reasonably fluent American, though I usually give myself away with shibboleths such as "roof" by pronouncing it to rhyme with "tooth" and not with "rough". 4. One of the great things about this list is that it largely transcends nationality. I feel more affinity for my fellow kayakers from the US of A, Finland or New Zealand than I do for many Canadians who are not paddlers. I imagine kayakers of any nationality probably inject less cash per head into the local micro economies than other tourists: we often camp rather than staying in hotels, and with the exception of perishables, we bring our own food. That said, we do buy gas for our motorized kayak land carriers, and have been known to spend some time (and money) in marine pubs. (Offsetting this is the fact our environmental impact is proportionately lower too.) However, a Canadian kayak guiding company has at least provisioned itself and brought its boats and gear somewhere in Canada, if not in the local community. US companies probably buy all but perishables at home, for the logistical convenience (I don't blame them for this; I wouldn't want to be running around unfamiliar stores in an unfamiliar town trying to locate vital menu ingredients while my paying clients cooled their heels in my van.) > >That said, I'd willingly pay my share of any provincial or national service >fee/boat tax, what-have-you, in Canada, Mexico, or anyplace else ... IF >the money went toward supporting my activity: sea kayaking. snip >Support for parks is so poor in my county, that the State had to conduct an >audit of the County because the County was not using pass-through State >money properly -- they shuffled it away from paying for winter portapotty >service! (Picture a busy boat ramp at an isolated location without a >portapotty for four months: hepatitis, hepatitis! Excavating for a mine!) > >I suspect the revenue stream from a "yak tax" of CDN$25/boat/year is >negligible. > >Sounds like an annoyance tax to me. But, I'd pay it willingly, if ... These are very valid concerns. BC Parks has farmed out the "servicing" of many of its parks to local "contractors" who are paid far less than the professional park personnel were, and who make their money from camping fees they collect from users. We have other scary examples of government abrogating its responsibilities and letting for-profit companies cherry-pick profitable services while leaving the government with the money-losers: Canada's national air aids-to-navigation system has been privatized, and in Vancouver we have the Airport Authority, a non-accountable, for-profit enterprise that runs Vancouver Airport. In Britain, the electricity and water infrastructures, built with public funds, have been sold to private enterprises which of course are more interested in quarterly returns than long-term viability. And all governments are notorious for collecting money supposedly for a dedicated purpose, then plundering it for general revenues (our national pension plan comes to mind). So I think you're right to worry that the "yak tax" might wind up doing little more than supporting the bureaucracy that collects it. Thanks for letting me have this therapeutic rave <rant mode off>. I'll just picture myself paddling, the soft gurgle of the water, the scent of the salt air and the evergreens... I feel better already. Philip T. N49°16' W123°08' "The opinions expressed in this posting are not necessarily those of my employer, or indeed, of any sentient being." *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
$25 fee? If one can get 4-5 people into a sailboat rental, and ONE person into a kayak, how about a $5 fee to be levied upon the kayak? If that at all... Kayaks to me are far more like "hiking gear" for the water than more traditional "sea farers equipment..." True, the Coast Guard can and does, get involved in rescues, as well as providing aides to navigation but as you indicate below, it is in a far more..."non-traditional" manner than for sailboats, or powerboats... Just an opinion... Tom... The fee is in place to support Aids to Navigation. Kayaks do use Aids to > > Navigation but the quality and kind of use is quite different between > kayaks, and power and sail boats. Kayaks and canoes are currently lumped > together with other small power and sail vessels. We need to be clear about > our special needs and make sure the Coast Guard is making informed and > knowledgeable decisions on behalf of the sea kayaking community. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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