In a message dated 3/9/99 8:08:20 AM EST, raisden_at_nh.ultranet.com writes: << I had the opportunity to test out my skills in some difficult conditions this Sunday... winds were 27 knots with frequent gusts that reached 37 knots (according to a local measurement station). >> I have paddled down wind in these conditions but a ture 27 knot wind will stop you dead and a ture 37 knots can push you backwards. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
<< I had the opportunity to test out my skills in some difficult conditions this Sunday... winds were 27 knots with frequent gusts that reached 37 knots (according to a local measurement station). >> to which, TomCkayak wrote: I have paddled down wind in these conditions but a ture 27 knot wind will stop you dead and a ture 37 knots can push you backwards. *************************************************************************** i have paddled a solo canoe on tidal rivers with flat shorelines. in that boat, 27 kt stops me and 37 kt pushes me backwards. In a cross wind situation, 42 kt gusts kick me and the boat sideways about a foot per gust....winds from *local measurement station* *local measurement station* winds can be unrepresentative of paddle site conditions. particularly when one is longer fetch open water and the other is a tidal river or marsh. the choice of hats is critical for high wind paddling... bye bye bliven *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Larry Bliven wrote: > > << I had the opportunity to test out my skills in some difficult conditions > this Sunday... winds were 27 knots with frequent gusts that reached 37 > knots (according to a local measurement station). >> > > to which, TomCkayak wrote: > > I have paddled down wind in these conditions but a ture 27 knot wind will > stop > you dead and a ture 37 knots can push you backwards. > *************************************************************************** > > i have paddled a solo canoe on tidal rivers with flat shorelines. in that > boat, 27 kt stops me and 37 kt pushes me backwards. In a cross wind > situation, 42 kt gusts kick me and the boat sideways about a foot per > gust....winds from *local measurement station* A canoe puts you too high up, even if kneeling, for effective paddling against wind. I have been in a situation with me in a K-Light alongside AMC canoe instructor/leaders in their canoes while paddling into 20 knot winds. They were stymied while I just doddled or paddled leisurely circles around them in order to stay back with them. > > *local measurement station* winds can be unrepresentative of paddle site > conditions. particularly when one is longer fetch open water and the other > is a tidal river or marsh. There is a saying that applies to the strength of winds and the size of waves. In later telling about them, they grow in direct proportion to the time elapsed since you paddled in them. Not to say that Greg H. was wrong. I suspect that the winds were indeed in the range he stated; his Khatsalano-paddling buddy has a reputation for getting maniacally gleeful when a hurricane is blowing up the East Coast. To him, 27 kt. winds are the push of air made by closing of a door. > the choice of hats is critical for high wind paddling... Am I the only paddler who tethers his hat? I always do in addition to making certain it is a hat that fits well enough to stay on its own. Kind of like wearing suspenders and a belt at the same time. For years I used a hat tether with roach clips on each end, one to attach to my baseball cap the other to the PFD. The last thing I've wanted is to be paddling into wind, lose the cap, have to double back and then buck the wind all over again to make up the lost ground. Those tether clips have pretty much given up all their spring, but in the last year or two Croakies has come out with a much better one with beefier clips that are not like the roach ones but more akin to the type on suspenders. I highly recommend these. About $5 or so. BTW, I also tether my paddle, whistle, knife, flare kit, VHF radio, insert pocket (something I've inserted into to the smallish second pocket in my Lotus Strait Jacket in order to carry more emergency stuff), pee bottle, pump, paddle float, and I suspect more things too. I look like a Cockney peddler rather than a correct paddler. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > Larry Bliven wrote: > > > << I had the opportunity to test out my skills in some difficult conditions > > this Sunday... winds were 27 knots with frequent gusts that reached 37 > > knots (according to a local measurement station). >> > > to which, TomCkayak wrote: > > > [snip] a true 27 knot wind will stop > > you dead and a true 37 knots can push you backwards. > someone else chimed in with: > > i have paddled a solo canoe on tidal rivers with flat shorelines. in that > > boat, 27 kt stops me and 37 kt pushes me backwards. In a cross wind > > situation, 42 kt gusts kick me and the boat sideways about a foot per > > gust....winds from *local measurement station* Ralph's subject line poses a useful question. Others (above) have better wind speed estimates than I do. My estimate of wind speed for the single incident where I *had* to paddle against a strong headwind is based on "sea state," and is necessarily approximate. I was much stronger then, so I could not do this now: I believe I barely made headway against a steady wind of at least 25 knots, which gusted to 30 (plus) knots. When the gusts came through, I was slowly pushed back until they quit. I had to do this for a distance of a little over a nautical mile. It took **two-and-a-half hours** to cover that distance, me paddling at full effort throughout. At the end, I was almost completely done in. My paddling partner, normally significantly stronger, had to rest midway, and took another half hour to complete the same stretch. Both of us paddle unfeathered, me in a Wind Dancer, and him in an Orca (ancient Eddyline boat, and demonstrably less efficient in rouigh seas). (BTW, there was minimal threat to life in my situation -- wind was quartering to a near, safe shore, for an easy extraction from the water if I capsized, and I was equipped for immersion. There would have been *no way* I could have self-rescued with a paddlefloat under those conditions. Not an experience I would choose to repeat.) -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I think a lot will depend on how much surface area you expose to the wind. Some sea kayaks have a lot of volume, and a high bow, and stick several inches up above the water. Mine has squat for a bow, low volume, and is always carrying very near its maximum capacity. With me at 210 lbs, and 50lb of gear; the bow spends as much time below the water as above in heavy seas. I also bench 200lbs+; and usually paddle in an athletic mode, applying a lot of power all through the stroke, using a fairly rapid stroke count. Given these factors, I can in fact paddle into high wind, 25-35kts; it is always very wet, I get as low to the deck as I can, and I feather my paddle. Making headway is not the problem. It is maintaining your stroke count. As long as you're paddling like on race day you'll make 1-2kts; as soon as you stop; the game is over, and you'll be flying across the water in the wrong direction. If you can't maintain a racing pace over the entire length of the crossing, you might as well toss out anchor or drogue and wait; or if you aren't in the water already, just lay on the hood of your car and wait for the weather to pass. If you do do the paddle, you might want to call the spouse at home, let them know they need to go to the store and get lots of bengay/iceihot/tigerbalm... Cause just like the day after a race, you'll be feeling it big time. Fortunately, days with 30kt+ winds are rare here. Unfortunately for some, days with 15-25kt winds are pretty common. Richard Walker Houston, TX http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
A canoe puts you too high up, even if kneeling, for effective paddling against wind. I have been in a situation with me in a K-Light alongside AMC canoe instructor/leaders in their canoes while paddling into 20 knot winds. They were stymied while I just doddled or paddled leisurely circles around them in order to stay back with them. ------------- I'm still amazed at being able to make any progress at all in a kayak against a fair headwind. I've been out paddling my butt off in a canoe many times over the years and going exactly nowhere against the wind. Several times, powerboaters have come up offering a tow (so I guess they ain't all bad, huh?). A couple of times, I really had to argue with them to convince them I was ok. I really haven't been stopped dead by the wind in a kayak (yet) and claim to have been out in 20 knot winds. Of course it doesn't take long for the cussin' to start, even if I can make some progress. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 3/10/99 10:04:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, Clyde.Sisler_at_wang.com writes: << I'm still amazed at being able to make any progress at all in a kayak against a fair headwind. I've been out paddling my butt off in a canoe many times over the years and going exactly nowhere against the wind. Several times, powerboaters have come up offering a tow (so I guess they ain't all bad, huh?). A couple of times, I really had to argue with them to convince them I was ok. I really haven't been stopped dead by the wind in a kayak (yet) and claim to have been out in 20 knot winds. Of course it doesn't take long for the cussin' to start, even if I can make some progress. >> One major difference i have noticed in headwind paddling is the significant reduction in wind resistance when using a greenland vs. traditional paddle. I am still getting about the same max speed with what seems to be less effort. Thanks to all who offered finishing advice for the paddle!!! Your pal, Robin Lovelock (returned from a cruise to Nassau today where I was deprived of any opportunity to paddle :>( Anyone paddled there? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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