Re: [Paddlewise] hardshell/foldable debate

From: Leander <overfall_at_ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 13:43:48 -0400
At 02:31 PM 09-04-99 +0000, N.D. VAN LOO wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>We have a simple question: Can anyone convince us that buying a 
>foldable double instead of a hardshell is a stupid and crazy idea?
>...(deleted)... At an outdoor exibition we saw a presentation of Klepper and 
>fell in love immediately.   ...(deleted)...
>We want a foldable because its larger safety margin and foldability.
>We consider Feathercraft/Klepper/Nautiraid doubles. Among these the 
>Klepper expedition (red colour) is the favourite.

Nice kayaks; we fell in love with folders after paddling them at a symposium a
few years ago, and now own Kleppers, despite the initial higher investment in
folding kayaks versus hardshells. We have a Klepper expedition double,
which my
spouse paddles solo, or we paddle double; we had the factory install the extra
center seat position. We also own a Klepper 2000, which I paddle; the new
two-bag system works great for me. We love the wood frames, canvas deck,
sailing potential, and dog-carrying capacity.
  To my 2000 was added paddle pockets instead of paddle straps, extra D-rings
and lifeline like the Quattro has, extra keel-strips to make the hull
expedition-quality. I also had Mark Ekhart modify the spray-skirt
attachment so
that the Velcro would not be glued to my wood coaming; instead, that Velcro
portion is on a tuck-under sprayskirt piece, to which the main portion
attaches. Mark did a great job on this, and I recommend it to anyone who wants
a quick-remove system without mucking up their coaming.

>... when presented at the kayak club gave rise to quite 
>some resistance. Foldables were "not done". When we asked: "Could 
>you give any logical reason why a foldable is a bad idea?" The debate 
>focussed on, stability, preformance, vulnerability to rocks, 
>maintenance, folding/unfolding time etc. But most of our kayaking 
>friends had no experience at all with foldables.

Their worries are mostly unfounded, as well as worthless since they have never
been in a folding kayak; so all they know is hearsay from others with no
experience. Not very useful.
  Our experience in Kleppers and hardshells is that Kleppers are more stable
than hardshells, especially in rough water. Both are capable of capsizing, but
hardshells are easier to capsize. Yes, Kleppers can be rolled; no, we can't
roll them yet (the only sea kayak I can somewhat reliably roll is a Picolo).
Both hardshells and folding kayaks require flotation bags; consider the
air-filled tubes in folding kayaks as balance enhancers instead of flotation
gear and get canoe end-bags to fill the Klepper bow and stern (kayak flotation
bags are too small). 
  Kleppers are not slow. The 2000 has phenomenal glide. The double moves well
with two paddlers, and moves pretty well with just my spouse paddling(meaning
he keeps up with the pack even when he is out of shape)...until we hit rough
water, then both kayaks shoot ahead of everyone else, as we use forward
strokes
and they frantically brace to keep from capsizing. 
  Maintenance is simple; we wash down our kayaks and all our gear with fresh
water and let them dry. You can leave them assembled or put them in their
bags,
giving the option of car-topping like a hardshell, or keeping them safely
inside your vehicle. We haven't varnished the wood or put 303 on the hull, but
we may get to that sometime.
  So what about vulnerability to rocks? Well, you can crack and hole a
hardshell, you can scrape or gouge its gel coat; you can also tear or hole a
folding hull. We have never done any of those things, but we tend to baby our
boats, whether hardshell or folding. We don't grind them onto the sand or
rocks
in takeoffs and landings, and we try to avoid barnacles. We did, however, get 
expedition hulls and extra keel strips because of the rugged terrain.
  Finally, folding and unfolding time. I can assemble the Klepper 2000 or the
Klepper double in 10-15 minutes, taking my time. We can both assemble the
Klepper double in 10-15 minutes, or my spouse can assemble it in 20-30 minutes
slow-southern-time (grin) (sitting in a chair while assembling parts) or 15-20
minutes ambling time. Disassembly is equally easy, at 10 minutes more or less,
depending upon how tired you are.

>We are curious to learn from people that have experience 
>with both foldables and hardshells. Could any of them please tell us 
>why we are so wrong?

You're wrong to let people who know nothing about folders talk you out of
buying what you really want. We have never regretted our decision of going
with
Klepper. I did own a Feathercraft Khatsalano-S for awhile, which is a lovely
craft, but takes far longer to assemble than I am willing to spend; 15 minutes
is my maximum tolerance for assembly time.

>Anyone of you is also free to explain why buying a foldable is the 
>smartest thing to do!

You will love it. One recommendation, however, is do not get the Klepper
paddles. Those paddles are awful, and the $90 per pair (two pair in a double)
can be spent on better paddles, probably in the 230-250cm range, depending on
who is in front/back, and how tall you are. Try before you buy. Initial
investment is higher than for most doubles, but you will never need another
kayak; you might add a sail rig in the future, then have a folding
kayak/sailboat. If you plan to do that, then I suggest the newer larger
sailing
rudder assembly. Also, on a double, sometimes a rudder is helpful in
cross-wind/current, but I would recommend learning to handle those things
without a rudder, then you can use it when you feel lazy (without being
endangered if it breaks, as all rudders are prone to do eventually).

>Thanks in Advance,
>Diana and Nico-Dirk van Loo
>VANLOO_at_CH1.FGG.EUR.NL

Hope this has helped. Ralph Diaz can tell you a lot more, and also advise you
about the other folding kayaks. You might want to read his book "The Complete
Folding Kayaker", which has 1994 prices, and doesn't have boats new since
then,
but the information is still quite valuable and valid. Hopefully, he'll be
using his "Folding Kayaker Newsletter" articles to aid writing an updated
second edition for his book...how about it Ralph...is in the works yet? <grin>
Regards,
Leander
overfall_at_ix.netcom.com


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Received on Fri Apr 09 1999 - 15:32:25 PDT

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