Scott wrote: >I think it's interesting that while we debate how far we are willing to go to recover the body of the unfortunate fifteen year old girl who drown on the Chattoga, our government is willing to spare no expense to recover the body of JFK Jr. Oh boy, you know, the exact same thoughts crossed my mind yesterday. While the young lady who drowned was no less a citizen of the United States than John Kennedy, her body retrieval became a debatable issue while the retrieval of Jr. was totally a non-issue. Of course fewer environmental issues were directly involved with the plane crash, but there was still a lot of diesel and helicopter fuel expended in the search and later retrieval. One thing that really bothers me--and I'm wrestling with myself whether I'm right to be bothered or wrong--is that there was a great deal of resources expended on a search, that by the 2nd or 3rd day, was for 3 bodies. Would our government, or you as taxpayers, pay for a Naval destroyer to transport my family to give my ashes to the ocean? I am not trying to make light of this tragedy, but had this happened to any of us, it would be no less tragic for our families, yet they would be "on their own" in dealing with this. With his life directly "in the public eye", did we, as a nation owe it to him more than the average citizen? I read on rec.boats.paddle yesterday that divers entered the hole on the Chattooga where Rachel was presumably at, and her body had flushed downriver. I hope she can be easily found, so that her father can bury her, if that's what he needs to do. 0 ____©/______ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ 0 Shawn Baker http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shawn W. Baker wrote: > Oh boy, you know, the exact same thoughts crossed my mind yesterday. > While the young lady who drowned was no less a citizen of the United > States than John Kennedy, her body retrieval became a debatable issue > while the retrieval of Jr. was totally a non-issue. Of course fewer > environmental issues were directly involved with the plane crash, but > there was still a lot of diesel and helicopter fuel expended in the > search and later retrieval. As someone that lives near a small airport, the local paper regularly has news of small plane crashes, about the only time it gets any wider coverage is if someone is killed, and then only to editorialize about how unsafe the airport or small planes are. So I completely agree with the concerns about how much attention and effort was placed on this plane crash and recovery, purely based on the last name of the victim. On the other hand, I'm really interested in salvage and undersea exploration, so seeing all the latest salvage gadgets on the nightly news is kind of interesting, at least to me. Its also good for the navy to get unplanned real time drills for recovery and salvage operations, that kind of training is invaluable. > One thing that really bothers me--and I'm wrestling with myself whether > I'm right to be bothered or wrong--is that there was a great deal of > resources expended on a search, that by the 2nd or 3rd day, was for 3 > bodies. Would our government, or you as taxpayers, pay for a Naval > destroyer to transport my family to give my ashes to the ocean? I am > not trying to make light of this tragedy, but had this happened to any > of us, it would be no less tragic for our families, yet they would be > "on their own" in dealing with this. With his life directly "in the > public eye", did we, as a nation owe it to him more than the average > citizen? I have a friend who's father was retired navy. His dad received burial at sea (open to current or retired navy and dependents). It was actually the most reasonable cost methods to dispose of the body (as requested in the will). Its a regular part of destroyer duty to perform burial at sea. You hand over the body, later, you get some paperwork (copy of the service and ships log entry), a folded flag, and an empty rifle casing. Is is also not uncommon for civilians to hitch rides on navy vessels. There are regular "dependent cruises" typically as the ship is returning from duty. Or if you know just about anyone aboard a navy vessel, by asking nicely you can probably get a tour while docked, or a ride while leaving or returning to port. Its good public relations to do this, though typically you are just extra baggage on an already arranged sailing of the ship. This is how I got a chance to tour a submarine and carrier. I know several people that have been on sailing tours of submarines or surface ships. I've tried to get a ride on a carrier, but mostly the timing has not worked out. I do object to navy vessels being diverted from their normal patrols for this. I also object to the wailing and hand waving that this is any more a tragedy than anyone else being killing in a airplane or automobile accident. I had the same objection to the fuss raised over princess Diana and her auto accident. Yes its a tragedy, so is the thousands of fatal automobile accidents that happen in this and other countries, but you don't see the world stop to cover them for a week on the nightly news. Ob kayaking, You do have to be carefull how close you kayak to the naval shipyard, they will send out a patrol boat to warn you off. Its still pretty cool to see some of the larger vessels at dock. dave -- Dave Uebele (daveu_at_sptddog.com) Spotted Dog Systems http://sptddog.com/daveu.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Dave Uebele <daveu_at_sptddog.com> > Shawn W. Baker wrote: > > > Oh boy, you know, the exact same thoughts crossed my mind yesterday. > > While the young lady who drowned was no less a citizen of the United > > States than John Kennedy, her body retrieval became a debatable issue > > while the retrieval of Jr. was totally a non-issue. Of course fewer > > environmental issues were directly involved with the plane crash, but > > there was still a lot of diesel and helicopter fuel expended in the > > search and later retrieval. > > As someone that lives near a small airport, the local paper regularly > has news of small plane crashes, about the only time it gets any wider > coverage is if someone is killed, and then only to editorialize > about how unsafe the airport or small planes are. So I completely > agree with the concerns about how much attention and effort was placed on > this plane crash and recovery, purely based on the last name of the victim. I don't see any more effort towards recovery based on the victim's name. Not usually. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've heard of extensive and expensive recovery efforts to save people whose names are completely unknown to the rescuers. That's what they do and sometimes lose their lives doing it. I think to suggest that rescuers put forth less effort on the unfamous, is to not give them due credit. I do, however, see more coverage on the news when a celebrity is involved. <snip> > over princess Diana and her auto accident. Yes its a tragedy, > so is the thousands of fatal automobile accidents that happen > in this and other countries, but you don't see the world stop to cover > them for a week on the nightly news. And that's what the news media does... cover stuff that sells newspapers and people pay money to read. I don't stop my daily life to watch it unless there are some interesting recovery methods going on as you mentioned. Otherwise, I use the remote. It's pretty simple, really. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There is a basic difference between the search for JFK's body and the search for the young lady's body. The ocean is not damaged at all by the JFK search. Altering stream flows or doing whatever is necessary to find the young lady's body could cause serious damage to a Wild River. I am sure that no kayakers would object to looking for the young lady if it was just a matter of getting more people out to look for her. "Shawn W. Baker" wrote: > Scott wrote: > >I think it's interesting that while we debate how far we are willing to go to recover the body of the unfortunate fifteen year old girl who drown on the Chattoga, our government is willing to spare no expense to recover the body of JFK Jr. > > Oh boy, you know, the exact same thoughts crossed my mind yesterday. > While the young lady who drowned was no less a citizen of the United > States than John Kennedy, her body retrieval became a debatable issue > while the retrieval of Jr. was totally a non-issue. Of course fewer > environmental issues were directly involved with the plane crash, but > there was still a lot of diesel and helicopter fuel expended in the > search and later retrieval. > > One thing that really bothers me--and I'm wrestling with myself whether > I'm right to be bothered or wrong--is that there was a great deal of > resources expended on a search, that by the 2nd or 3rd day, was for 3 > bodies. Would our government, or you as taxpayers, pay for a Naval > destroyer to transport my family to give my ashes to the ocean? I am > not trying to make light of this tragedy, but had this happened to any > of us, it would be no less tragic for our families, yet they would be > "on their own" in dealing with this. With his life directly "in the > public eye", did we, as a nation owe it to him more than the average > citizen? > > I read on rec.boats.paddle yesterday that divers entered the hole on the > Chattooga where Rachel was presumably at, and her body had flushed > downriver. I hope she can be easily found, so that her father can bury > her, if that's what he needs to do. > > 0 > ____©/______ > ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ > 0 > Shawn Baker http://www.missoulaconcrete.com/shawn/ > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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