Thanks Julio and Dave for your comments and I'ld be grateful for any other suggestions or advice from people who may have used drogues to prevent separation from a kayak or who are knowledgeable about avoiding separation following involuntary exit from an unrollable kayak in rough sea. Your advice supports what I have often been taught, that rolling should be the 1st line of defence in a rollable kayak. However, I've read in John Dowds book and heard from my sea kayaking instructor and others that rolling won't always be practical in rough water, that holding on to your paddle is an important 2nd line of defence. Nevertheless the kayaking deaths I have read about have often involved involuntary separation from the kayak. (ref "Deep Trouble", recent editions of "Sea Kayaker", etc). I should also have mentioned that the boat concerned is a Klepper Aerius 1 Expedition, which can't really be rolled back up if it tips over. As its a Klepper I'm talking (hopefully) about a rare occurrence, which nevertheless I want to be prepared for. A friend and I are planning to carry out self rescue practice, specifically relevant to Klepper use, in rough water with a manned motor boat near by. I'm ready to practice reentry strategies in rough water as they are well documented and I have practised them in calm water. However, there doesn't seem to be much evidence supporting strategies for preventing separation from your kayak in rough conditions. So we are looking at options that can be tested with a minimum of hazard. Hence the question regarding an automatically deployable drogue attached to a PFD. The velcro attachment to the PFD would allow the deployable drogue to be optional i.e it could be removed and stowed on the kayak when conditions are not hazardous or appropriate. After all it should only be necessary to use such measures in an unexpectedly rough sea. If I could have predicted that the sea would be rough enough to risk irreversible separation then I would be a fool to be there! Also Julio raises the issue of being on different sides of a tide rip - and Dave refers to a similar situation. Julio mentioned breaking waves and I'm now wondering whether a drogue would be helpful in breaking waves? Like Dave I would be grateful to know of difficulties with deployment of drogues and would very much value advice on whether they can be effectively used to avoid separation from a kayak. Thanks again, PeterO Dave wrote > What if it does work and the kayak stays put, but you drift away :-) Julio wrote > Breaking waves can certainly separate you from your boat. A current > would only separate you from your boat if you and your boat are on > different sides of a tide rip. > You should avoid getting out of your boat, and learn the techniques > to avoid it. But if you absolutely must, make sure that you do not > get out completely, but keep one leg inside the cockpit. Peter O wrote > Is it principally wind that causes such separation or can wave action and > currents do this also? > A paddling mate has suggested tethering a drogue to the kayak and then > attaching the drogue to your PFD using velcro. The idea is that if you fall > out of the kayak the drogue automatically deploys and stops the kayak > drifting away. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Peter, Peter wrote, "Regarding methods for preventing separation from your boat during a capsize in heavy seas/wind - Is it principally wind that causes such separation or can wave action and currents do this also? A paddling mate has suggested tethering a drogue to the kayak and then attaching the drogue to your PFD using velcro. The idea is that if you fall out of the kayak the drogue automatically deploys and stops the kayak drifting away." What if it does work and the kayak stays put, but you drift away :-) It might make a good experiment. The one thing you must have is strong paddling partners who can rescue you and recover your boat if it doesn't work. Also, make sure you have a sharp knife in case you somehow get tangled in the cords. Julio wrote, "Breaking waves can certainly separate you from your boat. A current would only separate you from your boat if you and your boat are on different sides of a tide rip." Julio, do you think the drogue would deploy properly in breaking waves? I've never used one. I'd like to know more about them. Cheers, Dave *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
PeterO Have you ever tried to roll a double Klepper? I've never seen a Klepper double, so maybe this is a stupid question, but why is it un-rollable? Earlier this summer, I was paddling a double kayak (a two ton, plastic Necky --- not a foldable) and was surprised at how easy it was to roll. The boat was wide, so stable you could stand in it, and while not an open cockpit, it was a VERY loose fit. By using a slow sweep with an exagerated follow through onto the back deck, it rolled easilly. As for separation from the boat, I just clip my towing harness into the deck lines. Since the harness has a quick release mechanism, if I should get tangled up and need to separate from the boat, its one quick tug and I'm free. If that fails, I always carry a knife on my PFD in an easy to grab location. I hate depending on lots of equipment or anything that has lots of lines to tangle -- hence, depending on a drogue would make me nervous. --Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Osman [SMTP:PeterO_at_ambri.com.au] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 5:41 AM > To: 'paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net' > Subject: [Paddlewise] Drogues and Separation from Kayak > > Thanks Julio and Dave for your comments and I'ld be grateful for any other > suggestions or advice from people who may have used drogues to prevent > separation from a kayak or who are knowledgeable about avoiding separation > following involuntary exit from an unrollable kayak in rough sea. > > Your advice supports what I have often been taught, that rolling should be > the 1st line of defence in a rollable kayak. However, I've read in John > Dowds book and heard from my sea kayaking instructor and others that > rolling > won't always be practical in rough water, that holding on to your paddle > is > an important 2nd line of defence. Nevertheless the kayaking deaths I have > read about have often involved involuntary separation from the kayak. (ref > "Deep Trouble", recent editions of "Sea Kayaker", etc). > > I should also have mentioned that the boat concerned is a Klepper Aerius 1 > Expedition, which can't really be rolled back up if it tips over. As its a > Klepper I'm talking (hopefully) about a rare occurrence, which > nevertheless > I want to be prepared for. A friend and I are planning to carry out self > rescue practice, specifically relevant to Klepper use, in rough water with > a > manned motor boat near by. I'm ready to practice reentry strategies in > rough > water as they are well documented and I have practised them in calm water. > However, there doesn't seem to be much evidence supporting strategies for > preventing separation from your kayak in rough conditions. So we are > looking > at options that can be tested with a minimum of hazard. Hence the question > regarding an automatically deployable drogue attached to a PFD. > > The velcro attachment to the PFD would allow the deployable drogue to be > optional i.e it could be removed and stowed on the kayak when conditions > are > not hazardous or appropriate. After all it should only be necessary to use > such measures in an unexpectedly rough sea. If I could have predicted that > the sea would be rough enough to risk irreversible separation then I would > be a fool to be there! Also Julio raises the issue of being on different > sides of a tide rip - and Dave refers to a similar situation. Julio > mentioned breaking waves and I'm now wondering whether a drogue would be > helpful in breaking waves? Like Dave I would be grateful to know of > difficulties with deployment of drogues and would very much value advice > on > whether they can be effectively used to avoid separation from a kayak. > > Thanks again, PeterO > > > Dave wrote > > What if it does work and the kayak stays put, but you drift away :-) > > Julio wrote > > Breaking waves can certainly separate you from your boat. A current > > would only separate you from your boat if you and your boat are on > > different sides of a tide rip. > > > You should avoid getting out of your boat, and learn the techniques > > to avoid it. But if you absolutely must, make sure that you do not > > get out completely, but keep one leg inside the cockpit. > > Peter O wrote > > Is it principally wind that causes such separation or can wave action > and > > currents do this also? > > A paddling mate has suggested tethering a drogue to the kayak and then > > attaching the drogue to your PFD using velcro. The idea is that if you > fall > > out of the kayak the drogue automatically deploys and stops the kayak > > drifting away. > ************************************************************************** > * > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************** > * *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hats off for you for taking the time to practice rescues and reentry methods. I hope many people follow your example. The problem I have with your idea described below is that it is 'gadget based', that is, it depends on the functionality of a device. I suggest that you practice more "natural" methods until they become instinctive. The most obvious procedure is to practice a partial exit--your foot stays inside the capsized Kleper while you float besides it. Keep your paddle between you and the boat so that it does not float away. Cheers for you! - Julio [snip] > rescue practice, specifically relevant to Klepper use, in rough water with a > manned motor boat near by. I'm ready to practice reentry strategies in rough > water as they are well documented and I have practised them in calm water. > However, there doesn't seem to be much evidence supporting strategies for > preventing separation from your kayak in rough conditions. So we are looking > at options that can be tested with a minimum of hazard. Hence the question > regarding an automatically deployable drogue attached to a PFD. [snip] > Thanks again, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yes it was the Amaruk. I suggested that my wife try the same stunt and she looked at me like I was a crazed motor-head --- not exactly the look you want to get from your soul-mate. By the way, I am a rolling fanatic and do it for fun whenever I paddle in clean water. But I make no claims of special proficency in rolling. I'm convinced that any competant roller could roll the Amaruk --- it was that easy. I'm looking forward to getting in other double and seeing if this is more broadly the case. --Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Ferguson [SMTP:a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 6:33 PM > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Drogues and Separation from Kayak > > >Earlier this summer, I was paddling a double kayak (a two ton, plastic > >Necky --- not a foldable) and was surprised at how easy it was to roll. > > If you mean an Amaruk, then it appears that you are not the only one to be > able to roll it. We have a member of our group who gets his wife to lean > forward and down while he rolls it back up. Says it is quite simple. > > Alex > Alex (Sandy) Ferguson > Chemistry Department > University of Canterbury > New Zealand > ************************************************************************** > * > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************** > * *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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