Re: [Paddlewise] Where to Pee (was: Saturation Point)

From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:40:07 -0700
Shawn W. Baker wrote:

> Someone downstream has to drink from that river!  Don't you think deer,
> elk, and bears pee on the shore?  I think improper disposal of solid
> waste (#2) and toilet paper is the bigger problem--pee at least 100 feet
> from water!!!!  I don't want to have to hope my MSR filter will filter
> out the stuff your bladder didn't want anymore!!
> 
> Peeing in the ocean is a different story than peeing in a "fresh" water
> source.

Well, things are probably more complicated than either the "don't pee in the
river" folks or the "do pee in the river" folks believe.  I've had an
extensive, running dialog with our biologist at work about this.  Here is what
I have gleaned:
-------
Fresh water:

1. A healthy, non-virally-infected person's urine is sterile.  It can't hurt
you to drink water contaminated with this kind of urine, so long as it is
diluted enough (tenfold is enough), even if you do not filter it (assuming no
other pathogen sources).

2. Urine from somebody who carries a bacterial infection in his/her bladder
(or similar body parts) will contaminate fresh water.  Filter it, however, and
it is safe.

3. Urine from a person who carries *some* kinds of *viral* infections *may*
contaminate fresh water, though to reach concentrations which would be a
hazard to health, the urine would have to somehow escape the usual dilution
which occurs in larger rivers.  (Not talking about brooks and rivulets.)  I
believe that hepatitis is the major virus of concern, here.
-------
Salt water (not worried about drinking -- just disease transmission via skin
contact or adventitious mucous membrane contact):

1. Almost no pathological bacteria from humans survive long in salt water. 
Urine contamination should be a non-entity *for bacteria.*

2. Viruses?  Jury is out on that one.  Probably viruses survive less well in
salt water than in fresh water, but the biologist says he does not know of
studies in that direction.  Could be some slight possibility of hepatitis
transmission via salt water, but the likelihood is smaller than via fresh
water (see above).

Bottom line:  if you plan to drink it, filter it.  If the small likelihood of
catching hepatitis concerns you, add one of the iodine (or similar)
post-filters.  

Peeing in rivers (not rivulets) in crowded areas of the SW USA
is the currently accepted practice.  Many folks who float such rivers treat
the river water (with flocculents to settle the silt, followed several hours
later with ordinary old bleach), and then drink it.  I do not believe there is
any epidemiology to support the notion that this practice has infected people
with hepatitis, *in this country.*  In countries where sanitation practices
are worse, all bets are off, mainly due to fecal transmission of viruses/etc.,
not urine.

Please do not regard this as a medical opinion.  YMMV

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
Received on Tue Sep 28 1999 - 20:08:22 PDT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:30:14 PDT