This has been an illuminating thread. Thanks to Doug for an excellent, serendipitous choice of title, for what we are finding out that each Paddlewiser's "saturation point" is different, both in flavor and extent. Ralph likes lots of people, and regards NYC harbor as a cool place. I like backwaters and sleepy sloughs. I would avoid NYC harbor as a regular paddling site, but Ralph loves it. Could be Ralph might find my spots pretty spooky. Bayside Bob (I think it was) feels there should be more paddlers, 'cause he sees lots of places for paddlers to launch where he is, and not many of them are used much. Others do not see much crowding on the water, either. Some see too much. A few guard their "secret spots" jealously, and others are eager to share them. There is agreement that every one of us was a newbie at one point. No one begrudges newbies their Oh! Wow! experiences, and none of us would shun a newbie ('cept maybe tomckayak?). Most would welcome a newcomer to his/her camp and share the coffee and brandy. Doug and I paddle some of the same spots (though we live in different countries) and have never met face-to-face. Because we share about the same ethos regarding what constitutes "crowding," we might, on the right sort of day, pass each other at a distance, not hallooing one another out of respect for the other guy's right to solitude. And, we might have missed out on some great camaradarie for our reticence. There is diversity in Paddlewise, and the listmom said: "And it was good." Peace (and stay out of my secret spots! ... <G>). -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I wonder whether most of the problem with trashed campsites is from kayakers, or do powerboaters also use these areas which Matt and others have referred to? It has been my observation that those involved in muscle powered sports such as backpacking, canoeing, XC skiing, etc. tend to be more environmentally conscious than those who are motor powered i.e. snowmobilers, 4 wheelers, motor boaters, & car campers. Maybe I've been lucky, but in the past 20 years of canoe, raft and kayak camping I have rarely, if ever, come across a trashed campsite which was not accessible by motorized vehicle. I can't say the same for sites which were not beyond that first propeller killing portage/rapid or next to an RV parking lot. To paraphrase a well known saying "Maybe we have met the enemy and it isn't us." I think most who take up our sport have a deep appreciation of the environment and try to maintain it. I do think that the requirement to pack out human waste has helped the rivers immensely. Also the "pee in the river not on the shore" advise given to river runners has cleaned up the campsites and shores. I agree that the only way to get access to more shoreline campsites and launch sites is to increase the numbers and/or vocal intensity of active kayakers. Politicians and bureaucrats can be swayed if they hear from us enough. The campsite/launch-take out issue is probably the most critical and if those in power in Washington and BC see kayak camping as a desireable tourist draw maybe they'll make take appropriate action. I plan to take a kayak oriented trip to the NW sometime- hope its not too late. Anyone know who to contact in the PNW to let our concerns be known? Walt Park City, UT *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Walt Chudleigh wrote: > > The campsite/launch-take out issue is probably the most > critical and if those in power in Washington and BC see kayak camping as > a desireable tourist draw maybe they'll make take appropriate action. > I plan to take a kayak oriented trip to the NW sometime- hope its not > too late. We sea kayakers do not constitute a very potent economic force, relative to the much more numerous and much more consumptive (read: spend more money than we do in remote places) RV/power boater crowd. I do not have the numbers to back up that assertion. It is based on casual observation over the years. This does not mean we should keep quiet. It just means our clout will be limited. > Anyone know who to contact in the PNW to let our concerns be known? I'd guess the Water Trails people in WA would be the first place to start. After them, it would be Department of Natural Resources and the State Parks folks in WA. I believe the latter are pretty strapped for bucks, however. Water Trails uses a lot of volunteer labor, IIRC. For a good description of the Cascadia Marine Trail, wending its way through Puget Sound, check out Joel Rogers' "Watertrail," Sasquatch Books, $22, ISBN 1-57061-095-9 This is the trail Matt Broze dinged the other night. Maybe you caught his sentiments, for an alternate view. Washington Water Trails is at http://www.eskimo.com/~wwta if I have typed it correctly. I have never tried any of their sites, but others from here have, and liked them. Another place to get your feet wet is in the Pacific Rim National Park, which can be extremely crowded. OTOH, it seems to have the amenities which help serve large numbers of people (composting toilets and quite a few designated campsites). Here is a URL for steamer access to that area: http://www.ladyrosemarine.com/ Note: both of these areas are "discovered." You will be completely "politically correct," in the Paddlewise sense, if you go there. <grin grin grin> -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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