I wrote: >>My biggest shock, and I've mentioned his on a previous post, was with a >>highly skilled paddler in a Sirius, with a skeg, in a quartering sea with a >>30 knot gale. The man never paddled the kayak again after that trip (he had >>done previous trips in it too) and now paddles a Gulfstream. The straight >>tracking former kayak would run off the wave, and too much effort was >>required to bring it back on course. The Gulfstream type of hull allows for >>easy leaning and fast course correction, though his newer boat is a bit >>slower. Ah, compromise. > Jerry responded: >I presume this means that the Gulfstream is easier to manage in a quartering >sea and 30 knot gale than the Sirius. Could you recommend a few other >boats, with or without rudder, that you would consider easy to manage in >these conditions. Do you think a rudder makes these conditions easier to >handle? > >Do you think that easy leaning and fast course correction are essential if >the goal is handling ease in these conditions? I have a Solstice GTS which >is not at all fast course correcting but is very easy to manage in 20 knots >and following seas. Is there a general opinion among the rough water >cognoscenti on the suitability of the GTS in these rear quarter conditions? > >I put this off list because I believe you don't like to comment on specific >boats on Paddlewise. Feel free, if you choose to answer, to post to the >list. Doug replies to Jerry (and PW's can read, but its mundane and opiniated, stuff): Well, I guess I already made some fairly specific remarks about the Sirius on copyrighted "air space". However, I know people who love this stiff tracking British heavy. It has a lot of apparent stability for such a narrow boat. The round bilge with a moderate "V" hull seems to endow this fast performer with the requisite stability factor desirable in an open coast kayak. The CD Extreme has a similar hull profile in some respects, and is thus fairly stable also -- depending on your definition of "stable". The "V" hull, in general, is a nice feature as a water collection channel for pump pickups when so placed on the inside of the "V". A "V" hull also intrinsically lends a certain stiffness to the hull, which many prefer in a sea kayak proper. I would say that I prefer the Sirius, from the times I've tried it. The wider Gulfstream, in comparison, just doesn't put you "in touch" with the water conditions as much. But, the Sirius is a bugger launching in surf, as it tends to flop one way or the other, whenever you lean either way as it teeter-totters on the "V" keel. There are also a few Sirius's on sale in the market place here in Victoria this year. This is unusual in that people who buy Brit type boats, once having made their purchase, generally are very satisfied, so it makes me wonder. Some would say the boat is "too much" for non-serious paddlers (pun not intended). I do know that there are still some hold-outs around here who still paddle the deep "V" hulled Baidarka of yesteryear from P&H, precisely because they do track so well for point to point exposed coast cruising. They don't seem to need a rudder, and with the up-turned ends, are great at backing up through kelp beds in a choppy sea -- but, they are very tippy. The wider Orion is a popular boat with extreme paddlers, as it offers stability for tall paddlers, tracks well with a bit of edging/leaning, and with its higher gunwales, once leaned over, rides like its on a rail -- something I can't do as well in my low decked Nordkapp. The Romany performs well in that kind of situation too, as do some of the Arluk series. However, I always go further in a wind storm, faster, and usually beat my bigger meat head friends that try to beat me through 5 knot currents going up hill in their other boats. To answer your question specifically, the CD GTS, as I may have mentioned to you in a previous e-mail, is one of the better all-around kayaks I know of, and I'm not saying that because they are made here in Victoria, BC. Their predictability is something that, while subjective, probably accounts for its high sales. In quartering seas, there are no sudden turn-turtle surprises. Its fine exit lines combined with a bit of a keel running fully abaft, give it good tracking up to the twenty knot sea conditions range. I would say that my experience suggests most GTS users deploy rudders at that point. Bear in mind that up until that approximate sea-state induced by those kind of winds, most good kayaks that don't need a rudder are easily maneuvered back on line with a little bit of body language and paddle-play. Kayaks like the GTS that are well designed, but come with an "auxiliary rudder", also benefit quickly from the above techniques to keep on track, just not as quickly in a real-time sense. As sea conditions deteriorate, kayaks that are built to track well rudderless are still going to work, they just require a lot of course management. Reflective micro-management does come with time, practice, and a person's natural predilection, if they have it, to work with their boat. Not everybody does, and this is why Matt doesn't sell everybody in the world his designs. The issue of swede shape vs fish-form is an interesting debate that Matt and John have fairly fully fleshed out for their PW friends. My observational/experiential take on it is that fish-form kayaks tend to track a bit better in a greater variety of conditions, but as seas get really rough, the swede form does a superior job if the paddler has the skills and knowledge. In big following seas, my fish-form Nordkapp is often completely awash (see picture in OCT Sea Kayaker Magazine). Without a rudder (or skeg) and a disadvantage of not being able to edge/lean significantly due to reduced gunwale buoyancy, I find I used to flounder and run off course. I developed huge muscles in my earlier youth, storm paddling (before my rudder installation) from the sweep strokes required. I've landed on the beach with my arm muscles actually quivering from the over-use. I've ran into a number of Norkapp owners who have paddled around Vancouver Island, only paddling on one side, as they put it. If you are looking for the perfect boat, forget it. You may find a perfect Violin if you have the money, but not a perfect kayak. Don't fall into the trap my friend who is selling his Sirius and who bought the Gulfstream did. I think he may very well, be looking for the perfect boat forever -- but then, in some ways, we all are, unless you are a Mariner owner I've been told :-) There are a few issues important to me: First, does the kayak offer a sea-kindly ride. Symposium try-outs on flat water are not the best place to find out. A good sea kayak must fit between waves longitudinally, yet must perform well in broaching seas. Secondly, on relatively flat water where we also spend most of the time, a good kayak must have good "glide". I don't find the British kayaks do this second point well, but do generally excel on the first point. While the British kayaks are fast enough, they always feel like you are putting effort into it. This is completley contrary to what people are told about narrow, fast British type kayaks, but I stand behind my statement. The Mariner style of kayaks, as well as the GTS, the CD Expedition, and many North American designs from Seda to Eddyline move through the water very efficiently indeed. Then there is the issue under discussion: Quartering winds and seas. You know, I really don't think any kayak does well in these conditions, despite what all the experts and designers say. Yes, some are better than others; skegs help regulate a more relaxed paddling style; maneuverable kayaks complimented by a paddler's skill are adequate, and rudders compensate for everything (with a premium paid due to drag). But really, this is a situation in paddling where you can't have your cake and eat it too. An nice big engine is how most of the rest of the "world" handles it. For me, dealing with quartering seas is half the fun of kayaking. Its part of the challenge. Sometimes I use my rudder, often I don't. I like to see just how far I can push it without the rudder deployed. I love "tuning" into what the wind and waves are doing, and then "dial in" my technique to handle course keeping needs. If conditions get out of hand, which they do from time to time in my part of the world with the open sea so close and numerous topographical features to facilitate the unexpected, I always know I'm going to make it home with my rudder as a backup. It can fail, I know, but I've modified mine beyond the anally retentive. I can't find my notes I was keeping on some other kayak designs. I'm in the middle of renovations. I'm bearly able to keep up with my e-mail, and only do so by robbing myself of sleep. I actually went out and bought a cordless mouse with an auto scroll. Al Wilson of Wave-Length has asked me to do a regular column, which I'm going to call "Making Waves", and SK Magazine keeps bugging me for more stuff, and I teach evening and weekends in addition to my regular job. Wa wa wa! I got rid of my cablevision, so don't have TV anymore. PW is my entertainment now, pretty sad, eh? Anyway, I keep a record of paddler's comments about their kayaks in a binder, and I'll try and find it ASAP. Until then, I better keep my little cake-hole shut! BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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