At 09:11 AM 10/19/99 -0700, Jerry Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> wrote: >Bruce wrote: >>Since we are on the topic of tethers, let's tether our rescue knife to our >>PFD. >>Bruce >> WEO > >Preferences for tethering a knife to a PFD - >Short tether or long? >Stretch cord, or plain line? >Something intentionally breakable (like 6 lb test fishing line) or sturdy like leather or nylon cord? >Do you attach a float to an otherwise non-floating knife? > >(I just tuck mine in a snap pocket on my PFD with no tether. But lately I think a more secure system would be better. I keep a second knife, bigger and stronger than my cute little Spyderco rescue knife, in my fanny pack, but that one wouldn't necessarily be available in a near panic situation.) > >jerry. > I have a "River Runner" (or is it "River Shorty", can't remember but it's the one with the point) attached to the lash tab on my PFD. It is attached handle down which makes it easy to access with either hand. I have a non stretchy (sneaker lace) tether running from the handle to a D ring inside my PFD pocket. The tether is not intended to be breakable, the theory being that I can cut it with the knife if need be. The tether length is just a bit longer than the distance I can reach with either arm. In use, the tether line resides in my PFD pocket just under the knife handle. The pocket is never fully zipped. This keeps the tether line from getting tangled in stuff but readily deployable. This works for me but I'm sure it is not the only way. I think it's really very important to have your knife access so that you can get it with either hand. I have mixed feelings about attaching flotation to the knife. I would be against floatation that would get in the way of the knife's use or deployment. My $ 0.02 Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/19/1999 1:08:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, WJLeonhardt_at_bnl.gov writes: << I have mixed feelings about attaching flotation to the knife. I would be against floatation that would get in the way of the knife's use or deployment. >> Good "point." Presumably, if you have a tether between knife and PFD (now I have to see if there is a wee hole or whatever on my knife to slip a cord through!) there is no real need for floaters. Sandy Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bill said: <snip>This works for me but I'm sure it is not the only way. I think it's really >very important to have your knife access so that you can get it with either >hand. I have mixed feelings about attaching flotation to the knife. I would be >against floatation that would get in the way of the knife's use or deployment. On the subject of knives, kayaking, and tethering, I have a number of concerns. Delete now if faint of heart when it comes to definite opinions. I see a lot of kayakers and canoeists with mounted river knives high up on their PFDs, near their collar bone area. The knives are typically the pointed survival type. I question, in particular, this mounting location. If the handle of the knife is pointed down, it is entirely conceivable that during an emergency, it would be possible to draw the knife out in a wide arc and slash your leg. Conversely, with the handle mounted upward, it is also possible that upon withdrawal from the holder, the knife could slash your face. Another location for mounting is down low, handle downward. Sitting in the kayak, a short torsoed person could easily lean forward just the wrong way, and the knife could pop out of the sheath and then puncture something important, namely, said paddler. I prefer to see these knives mounted sideways, part way down, handle outward from the body. I also do not carry this type of knife anymore after some discussion with the coast guard SARTECHS who train the Zodiac crews for surf rescue work, who suggest carrying a folding style that flicks open with one hand. I use a teflon lubricant to keep mine functioning to proper specifications. I tether mine as a back-up to loss, on an easily removable clip, but use a length of 1/8" bungy cord which permits good range of motion and distance of travel. My "flick" knife is not my main knife On deck I have a divers knife that is housed in a high quality, quick release housing. Pushing on a stainless steel ball half the size of a marble, with one hand, is all you have to do to release it. The handle it tethered to a divers equipment coiled tether with a good range of motion and distance. I use this effectively for extraction from kelp in heavy breaking seas when I submarine under. The tether has a quick release velcro arrangement so the I can release the knife efficiently for use when I reverse submarine into kelp. I used to use a folding fish-fillet knife. While it did cut kelp much more readily, the pin rusted unannounced one day, and when I went to close it, the resistance made my finger slip and I received a nasty gash that would not heal for the duration of the trip. I also bought a spare holder for the diving knife, which I use for transporting the knife after paddling, for security reasons. The knife holder on deck is sewn on to my deck bag, and is very secure. My arrangement, my opinion, and works for me; and I think its pretty cutting-edge technology :-) Now, what will happen to me one day when my knife's tether wraps around my paddle tether while I'm trying to clip out of my boat-to-person tether in breaking seas because the tether tangled around my paddle float outrigger's tether, all because I was trying to release my camera's tether to get a picture of a passing whale, is anybodys guess! BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>I see a lot of kayakers and canoeists with mounted river knives high up on >their PFDs, near their collar bone area. The knives are typically the >pointed survival type. I question, in particular, this mounting location. >If the handle of the knife is pointed down, it is entirely conceivable that >during an emergency, it would be possible to draw the knife out in a wide >arc and slash your leg. Possible, but I think you'd have to work at it. That's how I carry mine. The scabbard of my (early) Gerber is locked into a lashtab on my pfd. It can be grasped readily by either hand. When I do remove it (fortunately, mostly for cutting away monfilament fishing line from overhanging trees....) my motion is always outward and forward. I don't come anywhere near my face, and certainly not my legs. >Conversely, with the handle mounted upward,...... I find that difficult to imagine, and I would guess that it would be difficult to grasp the handle safely. > Another location for mounting is down low, handle downward. The lash tab is some distance down my pfd from the shoulder so that the entire knife is flat against the pfd. I also use, for some other pfds, an "Action Jackson" from Nantahala Outdoor Center. This is a hook & loop strap with a lash tab that wraps around the shoulder extension of the pfd. Using this I can readily transfer a knife from one pfd to another when I shift from one kind of water to another. (Ralph Diaz please copy...) WRT using a knife to cutting someone out of his sprayskirt; There was a ww incident wherein a rescuer ried to do so, and inadvertently cut open the victim's leg. It was at least contributory to the fatal outcome. If you must do so, cut the sprayskirt BEHIND the victim, rather than in front. One item of rescue gear I also carry is a Gerber Saw. It's cheap, cuts on the pull stroke, and will readily cut through a kayak. Unfortunately, cheapness also means it can rust so I keep it in a waterproof carrier with other rescue gear. JP *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:57 PM 10/19/99 -0700, Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca> wrote: SNIP > >I prefer to see these knives mounted sideways, part way down, handle >outward from the body. I'm having trouble picturing where you mean. Would the knife sit horizontally just under the PFD front pockets? I'd love to find a new location instead of the conventional lash tab that isn't so "Rambo" like but I haven't identified one that satisfies the "accessible with both hands" criteria. Perhaps in the skirt. > I also do not carry this type of knife anymore after >some discussion with the coast guard SARTECHS who train the Zodiac crews >for surf rescue work, who suggest carrying a folding style that flicks open >with one hand. Doug, you and others have indicated a preference for folding knives. I confess that I don't have much knowledge of what's available and how it works. I have seen the knives that have a large loop on the blade so you can flick the blade open with the thumb of the hand that's holding the knife. Are the folders that you have in mind loose enough to just flick them open or does the blade need some sort of assist? I'd like to ask the people with folding knife experience to comment on how easy the knife is to deploy while swimming, possibly tangled in multiple tehers with cold and/or gloved hands. Really, I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but I feel that a knife is important to have and it must be accessible in all circumstances. Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My latest PFD has a knife lash tab on the rear shoulder. -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net] On Behalf Of Bill Leonhardt Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 12:35 PM To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Knife Tethers At 10:57 PM 10/19/99 -0700, Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca> wrote: SNIP > >I prefer to see these knives mounted sideways, part way down, handle >outward from the body. I'm having trouble picturing where you mean. Would the knife sit horizontally just under the PFD front pockets? I'd love to find a new location instead of the conventional lash tab that isn't so "Rambo" like but I haven't identified one that satisfies the "accessible with both hands" criteria. Perhaps in the skirt. > I also do not carry this type of knife anymore after >some discussion with the coast guard SARTECHS who train the Zodiac crews >for surf rescue work, who suggest carrying a folding style that flicks open >with one hand. Doug, you and others have indicated a preference for folding knives. I confess that I don't have much knowledge of what's available and how it works. I have seen the knives that have a large loop on the blade so you can flick the blade open with the thumb of the hand that's holding the knife. Are the folders that you have in mind loose enough to just flick them open or does the blade need some sort of assist? I'd like to ask the people with folding knife experience to comment on how easy the knife is to deploy while swimming, possibly tangled in multiple tehers with cold and/or gloved hands. Really, I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but I feel that a knife is important to have and it must be accessible in all circumstances. Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Denton wrote: > > My latest PFD has a knife lash tab on the rear shoulder. > I think you will find that it is not meant for a knife but rather for mounting a strobe light or a 360 degree night light. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Denton wrote: > > My latest PFD has a knife lash tab on the rear shoulder. > > I do believe that the rear tab is for a strobe. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bill Leonhardt asked about knives; >Doug, you and others have indicated a preference for folding knives. I confess that I don't have much knowledge of what's available and how it works. I have seen the knives that have a large loop on the blade so you can flick the blade open with the thumb of the hand that's holding the knife. Are the folders that you have in mind loose enough to just flick them open or does the blade need some sort of assist? Bill, I do have some knowledge in this area. Possibly the most popular folding knives among rescue people at this time is the Spyderco brand. They have two models that are equipped with snaps. They are a brand that has popularized the large hole in the blade. This hole is for flicking the blade to an open and locked position with your thumb. A knife blade should not just flick open without an assisting device (thumb assist, strong flicking wrist action or spring loaded pushbutton). Spring loaded knives (switchblades) are illegal in many states and controlled in others. >I'd like to ask the people with folding knife experience to comment on how easy the knife is to deploy while swimming, possibly tangled in multiple tethers with cold and/or gloved hands. Really, I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but I feel that a knife is important to have and it must be accessible in all circumstances. I would say that the ease of deployment questions is unanswerable. A sheath knife may be more easily deployed, but, a good sheath knife will probably have a release of some sort on the sheath. Oh, yeah, stainless means that it is less susceptible to stain not that it is stain proof. I use Never Dull Magic Wadding Polish to polish my knives. It is available at most Marine Supply Stores and hardware stores. A five dollar can will last for years. Another tidbit, a common serrated blade has about 2.5 times more cutting surface per inch than a traditional blade. Bruce WEO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I know that but it would be an ideal place to mount a Gurka knife for when the Glock jams... -----Original Message----- From: rdiaz_at_IX.NETCOM.COM [mailto:rdiaz_at_IX.NETCOM.COM] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 10:11 PM To: Bob Denton Cc: 'Bill Leonhardt'; 'paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net' Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Knife Tethers Bob Denton wrote: > > My latest PFD has a knife lash tab on the rear shoulder. > I think you will find that it is not meant for a knife but rather for mounting a strobe light or a 360 degree night light. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
For a look at some of the rigid knives being discussed, along with the KISS folding (lashtab mount) and "Stiff" knives, check out the Wyoming River Raiders web site, http://www.riverraiders.com/accessories/knives/knives.html. Their latest catalog (1-800-247-6068) has, on the same page as the knives, a neat looking "Head Gasket" laminated fleece (from a discussion with the shop, it's probably Malden Mills' Thermal Stretch material, discussed a lot on this site) hood. Looks like it would be very close fitting around the neck (eliminating the floppiness of using a diver's hood), has some perforation at the ears to allow the wearer to hear oncoming freighters, and seems like a pretty good deal at $24. Got mine coming --- will review if there's interest. (Currently on backorder, usually a good sign.) Yadah, yadahhhh, no affilitation, etc. Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:34 PM 10/20/99 -0400, you wrote: >At 10:57 PM 10/19/99 -0700, Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca> wrote: >SNIP >> >>I prefer to see these knives mounted sideways, part way down, handle >>outward from the body. > >I'm having trouble picturing where you mean. Would the knife sit >horizontally just under the PFD front pockets? I'd love to find a new >location instead of the conventional lash tab that isn't so "Rambo" like >but I haven't identified one that satisfies the "accessible with both >hands" criteria. Perhaps in the skirt. > Bill, et al: See what happens when I quote the Coast Guard without thinking their recommendation through. No, it would not be accessible with both hands. When I used to carry one of these knives for river kayaking (a folder is good enough for sea kayaking, especially with another knife on deck), I custom mounted the holster half way down the front zipper of the PFD. I would have to move the holster/knife over a bit to unzip the PFD. Anyway, this gave me the best location to avoid the Rambo look, but if I were ever tucked over, it would admittedly be difficult to retrieve while I was crunched up against a log jam. The answer is out there...somewhere. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd > >> I also do not carry this type of knife >anymore after >>some discussion with the coast guard SARTECHS who train the Zodiac crews >>for surf rescue work, who suggest carrying a folding style that flicks open >>with one hand. > >Doug, you and others have indicated a preference for folding knives. I >confess that I don't have much knowledge of what's available and how it >works. I have seen the knives that have a large loop on the blade so you >can flick the blade open with the thumb of the hand that's holding the >knife. Are the folders that you have in mind loose enough to just flick >them open or does the blade need some sort of assist? > >I'd like to ask the people with folding knife experience to comment on how >easy the knife is to deploy while swimming, possibly tangled in multiple >tehers with cold and/or gloved hands. Really, I'm not trying to be a >smart-ass, but I feel that a knife is important to have and it must be >accessible in all circumstances. > >Bill Leonhardt > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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