Robert Woodard wrote: > > Ralph D wrote: > > > Fundamentally, a wet suit to dry suit switchover should occur in the mid > > 40s or sooner if you wish; and especially if the air is cool. > > Ralph, I have to admit when I read this message, I thought you might be > trolling for debate. Apparently I was wrong, and I have to admire you're one > of the very few willing to post actual temperatures at which different > garments should be worn (with caveats). > > My question (you knew this was coming, right?) is: Are these > temperature/garment recommendations based on your personal experience or > another source? I have jumped into 45-47 degree water wearing a 3mm neoprene farmer john and all the stuff mentioned ( I had polypro long sleeve shirt under that, 100 weight fleece top over that and a paddle jacket (coated, non-breatable) with paddle pants and real thick neoprene non-zippered 6-7 inch high (I believe the booties are 6 mm); neoprene gloves, no particular head cover.) I could function for more than enough time to do a re-entry but it was uncomfortable and I was chilly until I warmed up via paddling. I suspect some people would have been real cold in what I was wearing and others could have hung out in the water as happy as seals. But the outfit was more than enough. Other accounts from various sources seem to confirm that non-dry suits, i.e. neoprene or polartec, are workable to about that degree (and the 6 mm neoprene that Allan Singleton seems to be able to paddle in would be infinitely better). I hear it from whitewater sources. And also sea kayaking sources. At least one manufacturer has also stated that 45 degree barrier, I noticed in regard to the polartec thermal stretch stuff which they also said was the equivalent of 2mm to 2.5mm of neoprene. Jack Martin mentioned in Paddlewise recently that he tested swimming around in cold water in I think just his polartec thermal stretch suit for 20 minutes in 38 degree water...he was quite cold but functional and thought he might have dropped his core temperature a degree or so. But it isn't always like that. A fairly burly man here was in for about the same amount of swim in the Boathouse embayment in water at about that temperature and he was really miserable while wearing I believe farmer johns of that material and a paddle jacket (it may have been a full suit). And Chuck Sutherland, who is a big guy, reported in some article being in high 40s water (I think, but it may have been around 50) with a farmer john and paddle jacket and going overboard (while sailing because his roll is fully a combat one, par excellence) for a half hour swim or so and was miserable and getting hyperthermic. So based on all that, I stick to my point of 45 degree as a good dividing line for switching unless you are positive you can reboard in 2 minutes or less (Ahhh, folding kayaks!). > As a side note, my next door neighbor (a volunteer fireman) said he thought > my 3 mm wet suit to be good only down to 55 degree water temp. This is based > on some sort of training he received for his volunteer job, but I didn't > press him for specifics or question him on the validity of his statement. That is unequivocally wrong. I wish you had pressed him on it. Maybe he is thinking of divers. Some competitive swimmers go for long periods in that degree water with no wet suit. You would be fine in one. > Without all the other gear you mentioned (beanie, gloves, etc) this might be > in the right ballpark. No, with all the extra stuff, you would be okay up to about 10 degrees lower than what he said. But again so much depends on the individual. And remember the bottom line...this is all in the non-dry suit realm. In a _dry_ suit with a decent amount of fleece underneath and hand, neck, foot and head protection, you could hang out for an incredibly long time in water in 40 degrees and lower. So if in doubt about your metabolism and cold exposure tolerance, opt for a dry suit for water below 50 and 55 degrees if you can stand wearing it in the air temperature at that time (my tolerance for a coated dry suit has gone up as high as about 70 degrees or so air temperature but in a day that started off in the high 50s air temperature. and of course I was soaking wet with sweat underneath.) > > Second question (and open to all): Should the paddling community define some > "rules of thumb" for different types of clothing for varying water temps? > Would this be safer for new paddlers to understand? (vice the "jump in and > test it" advice) Woody, my email pal, I think it has, albeit groups vary in what those rules of thumb should be. Remember that 1998 CPA annual meeting paddle trip in which, from what I was told by several sources, several people were turned away who had no cold water gear even though the water was in the 63 degree range. No one in Puget Sound would insist on that at that water temperature (does it even get that high there!) nor up here in NYC especially for just a fun short trip in calm air and warm air temperatures. My own rule of thumb has steadily over the years gotten more and more conservative. Years ago, I would never have dreamed of putting on cold water protection until water was beginning to drop below 55 and actually around 52 or so. Now I put on a shorty polartec thermal stretch suit at 60 degrees and switch to a full polartec thermal stretch suit at below 55 degrees. The newer materials have made it possible to be comfortable with a decent level of cold water protection; and I have been buy an array of the stuff from a shorty farmer john to full suit and vest and shortsleeve jacket, all of which give me lots of options for varying air and water temperature situations as well as my own gut feel about how much risk I may be facing. (BTW, I have found that with age my normal body temperature has dropped quite a bit. My norm is at exactly 97 degrees. If I am at the 98.6 degree hash mark on a thermometer, I consider that the beginnings of a fever!!!) ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************Received on Fri Nov 12 1999 - 19:13:09 PST
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