David Martin --- probably some distant relation --- makes an important point that "... dry suits are subject to total failure from even a small puncture or tear. If they leak at all, they will provide very little protection from cold water immersion." And, in fact, a compromised drysuit was shown in a Coast Guard and Navy test to provide essentially no thermal protection to its user. At that point, it's about as good as a "huddle" technique in open water survival. My personal response to this unlikely but definitely potential "worst case" scenario --- and you have to think of what could happen to separate you from your kayak for an extended time --- is to wear a full Thermal Stretch material jumpsuit as part or all of my insulation layer. When dry, it's warm fleece lining provides most of my needed insulation, assuming the drysuit (a GoreTex suit by Kokatat) remains intact, but, should the suit be compromised, it gives me the survivability of the equivalent of a two mil neoprene suit. Not a lot, but a survivable situation. (The newer Rubberized Thermal Stretch, sometimes called "fuzzy rubber", does not breathe as well as the older Thermal Stretch, and may not work as well in the dry mode; both materials are made by Malden Mills, and are the composite fabrics of choice for most non-neoprene "wet" gear these days. As to countering the risks of drysuit-induced hyperthermia --- not sure I totally agree with Cousin Dave: there are safe ways of venting excessive heat while wearing a drysuit. We frequently take off our gloves for short periods of time and dip our hands (briefly!) in cold water; there's a lot of blood circulating there, and hands can act as a radiator to bleed off the body's excess heat. A more dramatic and effective way to vent off a good deal of heat is to roll or practice self rescues; hey, you're on the water and you'd better be ready to be in the water! That's something that many of my paddling colleagues espouse and drill --- worst case scenarios. A good way into that is to start now, while the water temperature is declining slowly, swim the gear you decide to use regularly, and get used to it as the air and water temperatures begin to get serious. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>A more dramatic and effective way to vent off a good deal of heat is to roll or practice self rescues; hey, you're on the water and you'd better be ready to be in the water! That's something that many of my paddling colleagues espouse and drill --- worst case scenarios. I have to question this advice (practicing self rescues to cool off). You're using a lot of energy to do a self rescue, and there is the potential of pulling a muscle which might put an end to the day's paddling for you as well as your paddling partners. If you're out for a day paddle that might not be so bad, but if you're in the middle of a week long kayak camping trip the risk of injury becomes serious. Additionally, wasting energy seems unwise at any time since conditions can change unexpectedly and abruptly and you may find yourself without the strength to paddle to safety. Self rescues should be practiced, and practiced in the worst conditions you can safely practice in, but may be best reserved for times dedicated to practice rather than a paddling trip. Karen (got no energy to waste!) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: > > David Martin --- probably some distant relation --- makes an important point > that "... dry suits are subject to total failure from even a small puncture > or tear. If they leak at all, they will provide very little protection from > cold water immersion." And, in fact, a compromised drysuit was shown in a > Coast Guard and Navy test to provide essentially no thermal protection to its > user. At that point, it's about as good as a "huddle" technique in open water > survival. > In order to burp my dry suit*, I sometimes walk into the water up to my shoulders. This also does a quick check for any leaks and insulation adequacy before paddling. Not perfect, but a start. > My personal response to this unlikely but definitely potential "worst case" > scenario --- and you have to think of what could happen to separate you from > your kayak for an extended time --- is to wear a full Thermal Stretch material > jumpsuit as part or all of my insulation layer. When dry, it's warm fleece > lining provides most of my needed insulation, assuming the drysuit (a GoreTex > suit by Kokatat) remains intact, but, should the suit be compromised, it gives > me the survivability of the equivalent of a two mil neoprene suit. What advantage does the Thermal Stretch have over regular fleece inside a leaky dry suit? It would seem to me that the only advantage of thermal in the open would be that the nylon/lycra layer reduces the flow of cold water through the fleece. If regular fleece is inside a leaky dry suit, water flow would also be minimized. Or am I missing something? Mike *Burping a dry suit, for those that don't know, is the process of removing excess air from inside the suit. If too much air is inside the suit, it could flow into your legs and force you into an inverted position in the water, since your legs would be more buoyant than your upper body. This could kill you in white water, though I'm not sure you couldn't resolve it in calm water with a tuck-and-roll. I may try it some time... not alone. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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