Karen countered, "... self rescues should be practiced, and practiced in the worst conditions you can safely practice in, but may be best reserved for times dedicated to practice rather than a paddling trip." Don't dispute that, and wasn't really thinking of doing a lot of longer trips during the winter months, anyway, I guess. And I see her point, but I was really addressing cooling down and not self rescues; roto-cooling works for me. Hand-radiating also works. I guess I'd have to wonder if people who don't have a reasonably effective roll should be doing long transits in the winter, anyway --- a roll not being the energy waster that a paddlefloat re-entry obviously can become. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I guess I'd have to wonder if people who don't have a reasonably effective roll should be doing long transits in the winter, anyway --- a roll not being the energy waster that a paddlefloat re-entry obviously can become. > Winter/summer isn't the point. Water temperature is. If you paddle Alaska in summer, water temperature might warrant wearing a dry suit, while air temperature is in the warm 70's. This is the type of situation that prompted initial concern about overheating in a dry suit. As for rolling... I am wondering how many people practice rolling a loaded kayak? Is there any difference rolling loaded/unloaded boat? Or rolling a kayak with gear lashed to deck? Also, when rolling in very cold water (as in Alaska), do you experience any type of reflex (like gasping) when your face hits the water? I learned to SCUBA dive in Alaska and recall feeling like upchucking on my first open water dive when cold water seeped through the neck gasket of the dry suit (neoprene) and ran down my back. Karen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> As for rolling... I am wondering how many people practice rolling a loaded kayak? Is there any difference rolling loaded/unloaded boat? Or rolling a kayak with gear lashed to deck? Also, when rolling in very cold water (as in Alaska), do you experience any type of reflex (like gasping) when your face hits the water? I learned to SCUBA dive in Alaska and recall feeling like upchucking on my first open water dive when cold water seeped through the neck gasket of the dry suit (neoprene) and ran down my back. Karen >> I find virtually no difference between rolling a loaded and an unloaded boat. (The first time my wife rolled a loaded boat, she forgot it was loaded, and I had to point it out to her afterward.) Rolling with gear lashed to the deck could conceivably make a difference, but I keep my decks as clear as possible, and have no experience with it. I don't think everyone experiences cold shock symptoms, for I have never had a gasp reflex when rolling in ice water. (However, I usually wear a neoprene hood and a dry suit when I do so.) Also, I have been on several ski trips in which people (myself included) jumped into a lake through a hole in the ice after a sauna. I don't recall *anyone* gasping when they put their head underwater. However, twice I have hyperventilated after wet-exiting when I ran out of air while capsized in cold (not icy) water, and I have also felt my muscles grow numb during swims in cold water, so I do have a great deal of respect for what it can do. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> As for rolling... I am wondering how many people practice rolling a loaded > kayak? Is there any difference rolling loaded/unloaded boat? Or rolling a > kayak with gear lashed to deck? Also, when rolling in very cold water (as in > Alaska), do you experience any type of reflex (like gasping) when your face > hits the water? I learned to SCUBA dive in Alaska and recall feeling like > upchucking on my first open water dive when cold water seeped through the > neck gasket of the dry suit (neoprene) and ran down my back. well, as for rolling cold water I can't say much about that in Australia. But as for rolling a loaded boat - no real difference to unloaded. The only thing I do with a loaded boat is to take the roll relatively slowly and carefully and let the technique do the work. The practice some of us do in warmer months (it might not get as cold as alaska but even so in winter here I'd rather stay dry) is a roll at the end of each paddle before landing. This means we roll loaded boats somewhat regularly, and you ensure you can roll at the end of day's paddle when tired. We call it the 'winkworth roll' in honour of the NSWSKC training officer, dave winkworth, who promotes it and is liable to suggest rolls offshore at any moment! As for having sufficient geat lashed to deck to confound rolls - forget it, don't have it there. It may well cause roll problems (i don't know) but it could cause windage problems, or hinder rescues, climbing back in, balance etc. nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>The practice some of us do in warmer months (it might not get as cold as alaska but even so in winter here I'd rather stay dry) is a roll at the end of each paddle before landing. This means we roll loaded boats somewhat regularly, and you ensure you can roll at the end of day's paddle when tired. We call it the 'winkworth roll' in honour of the NSWSKC training officer, dave winkworth, who promotes it and is liable to suggest rolls offshore at any moment! Great idea! Karen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/1/99 12:54:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, magpi_at_transport.com writes: << Is there any difference rolling loaded/unloaded boat? Or rolling a kayak with gear lashed to deck? >> IF the gear does not roll around, a loaded boat is easier to roll. At some point the size of a deck load will kill a roll, I think. I paddle a Mariner MAX without hatches or permanent bulkheads. Results with a different type of kayak may be different. Tom C. Edmonds WA. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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