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From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] How do you hold your paddle?
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 23:06:02 -0800
David Seng wrote:

snip
>   So how about the rest of you - right side up, or upside down?<

Depends on the paddle. Most of the time right side up. But if I was paddling
in New Zealand it would be upside down (but so would I). The sun would go
the wrong way across the sky and if you drive on the right side of the road
you meet a lot of traffic that tells you your on the wrong side. You can
however, buy artificial banana flavored milk, cereal and candy marshmallows
which makes up for a lot of the other things that are upside down at least
if artificial banana is your favorite flavor in the whole world and you are
starved for it living in backward North America. But I digress.
I have used paddles that were easier to use upside down. They were spooned
and had a tendency to spin in ones grip if not held tightly enough. By using
them upside down the spin is always initiated to the outside and you know
which way to correct for in advance. If the asymmetrical spooned blade is
used the way it was designed to be used you don't know if the paddle will
start its spin (as it slides to the side around the spoon) inward or outward
and so is much harder to control because you must wait for the feedback to
know which way to correct.
The reason for asymmetrical blades is to keep the area equal on each side of
the blade so no matter how shallow the blade is buried if power is applied
to it then it won't want to twist in your hand from uneven pressure on each
side. If you don't put on the power until the blade is totally buried and
cut power before removing the blade from the water you will get no benefit
from asymmetrical paddle blades used design side up.
One paddler I know uses her paddle upside down because she says she likes
the extra kick she feels it adds to the end of her stroke. She is really
mostly lifting water and feeling the point not lift out of the water until
last (and later than if she used it as designed where it is again putting a
twist on the shaft) and she is working harder than she needs to to get the
same speed. Some people like to feel they are working hard. This is sort of
like someone telling me they like a long paddle because they can feel how
well it is gripping the water by how hard it is to pull. They are confusing
their perception of effort with the idea that the effort is going into some
useful purpose which is not necessarily the case.
David, is your paddle very spooned? If so you may be doing the best thing.
Or maybe the next best thing, buying a paddle that doesn't want to keep
spinning in your grip would be better. What make and model is it?  What is
it you like better about holding it upside down? Is this the case with other
models you have tried as well? Which ones?
Matt Broze
http://www.marinerkayaks.com

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From: Chuck Holst <CHUCK_at_multitech.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] How do you hold your paddle?
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:29:15 -0600
>>
  So how about the rest of you - right side up, or upside down?
>>

One of the advantages of using a Greenland paddle is that no one can
tell if you are holding it upside down, even when you are. :-^

Chuck Holst
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From: David Seng <David_at_wainet.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] How do you hold your paddle?
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:35:28 -0900
David Seng wrote:

snip
>   So how about the rest of you - right side up, or upside down?

Ralph Diaz wrote:

If you insist on lifting all that water in holding an asymmetric paddle
blade
upside down, why not go allthe way in inefficiency...I have an old pair of
clunky Klepper paddles to give you. :-)

I assume that is what you are talking about.  Depending on the amount of
asymmetricity, you do wind up carrying a lot of water on the blade as it
comes
out of the water, sorta like shoveling snow.

DS responded -

  Maybe I do something weird when I paddle (I've never had any formal sea
kayak training), but I try to minimize any paddle force in any direction
other than opposite the direction that I want to move in - i.e. I try not to
"lift" water or "push" water.  As a competitive swimmer I was always very
conscious of "paddle" effiency with my strokes and I try to carry that same
attitude and "feel for the water" over into my paddling.  I have always
thought that my "blade angle" when exiting the water was nearly vertical and
thus fairly efficient, but perhaps I'm wrong - I certainly haven't ever
given much thought to the "upside down" part of the paddle on the exit, but
more about how it functions during the initial part of the stroke.  Sounds
as though it would be worthy of more attention and study on my part.  I'd be
interested in hearing more on this issue from other folks on the list who
really focus on paddling efficiency.  I'm usually a pretty easy-going,
laid-back paddler whose eyes tend to glaze over when folks start writing
about the more technical issues of paddle strokes, but this issue has my
interest.

Dave Seng
Juneau, Alaska
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From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How do you hold your paddle?
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 22:13:32 -0600
Jerry wrote;

>On a recent trip a guide pointed out to me that when paddling in reeds and
weeds it is better have the paddle backwards (not upside down, but frontside
back).
>
Never tried a conventional touring paddle backwards in the swamp.  It's been
my experience that the, narrow blade (Greenland style) is far superior in
the swamp than a conventional touring paddle.

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From: 735769 <735769_at_ican.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How do you hold your paddle?
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 07:27:16 -0500
I have always been intrigued by the justification of the asymmetrical paddle
blade (asymmetrical about the shaft centerline not in section or over the
blade length ). The reason it intrigues me has to do with the balance of
forces. If the flow over the paddle is normal to the blade then one can
easily see how, at different immersions, the asymmetrical blade might have
balanced forces even when the blade isn't fully immersed. If the paddle has
an angle of attack (i.e. moves at an angle through the water, the forces
become unbalanced around the centerline of the shaft as the center of force
shifts towards the "leading" edge.

It would seem that flow normal  to the blade would be the exception rather
than the rule especially given the variability of human beings.

I doubt if many of my strokes have normal flow. :-)

No doubt all the disruption around the boat and due to waves further messes
up the flow. Another consideration has to due with the forces near the
surface for a partially immersed blade. The drag coefficient of the
partially ventilated portion of the blade may not equal the drag of the
fully immersed portion of the blade and this would vary with the force
applied.





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From: Allan Singleton <allan.singleton_at_voyager.co.nz>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How do you hold your paddle?
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:17:43 +1300
Matt Broze wrote:
> But if I was paddling in New Zealand it would be upside down (but so would
I).
>

Now you know why I have never bothered learning to roll!

If I can live, breath and paddle upside down, why worry? Who wants to be an
upright citizen anyway?


Allan Singleton
Hamilton NZ

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