> From: "Kehoe, Kevin" <KEHOEK_at_coned.com> > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] How and when to speak up > Some will listen, most will not. Reducing risk is paramount to the more > experienced paddlers but lessens the thrill for the novice. Posting water > temperature is a good start but experience is the best teacher. I think it's > best to simply suggest there is a risk and advise the novice to be careful. ======================== Boaters coming into sea kayaking from the general public have NEVER BEEN IN COLD WATER dressed only in their blue jeans and T-shirts. They are absolutely convinced that they will be able to swim as well in November as they did in July. I believe that it is not that they are out for the thrill and danger of it. The problem is that they can not possibly imagine what it is like to plunge into cold water with no PFD and wearing only street clothes. The American boating culture is that of the open (fishing) boat crowd that will never agree to wearing a PFD no matter what season or weather. They are devoid of training. They bring their ignorance with them when they buy the kayak and launch. What's to learn? They had no problem in August; now they have paddled successfully a few times-- they are blooming experts in their own minds. Guess what? A few of them will be written up in short columns in the obits of a local newspaper. "Local expert dies in kayaking mishap." Most of us will never see the story. The fact is they never had a chance out there. NO ONE TOLD THEM ANYTHING !! Chuck Sutherland http://www.enter.net/~skimmer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>.............. They are devoid of training. They bring their >ignorance with them when they buy the kayak and launch. What's to >learn? They had no problem in August; now they have paddled >successfully a few times-- they are blooming experts in their own >minds. Guess what? A few of them will be written up in short >columns in the obits of a local newspaper. "Local expert dies in kayaking mishap." >Most of us will never see the story. The fact is they never had a >chance out there. NO ONE TOLD THEM ANYTHING !! Chuck, it's not necessarily for a lack of trying.... I call it "Invincible Ignorance". Many of these people have no idea how to get into or out of a kayak let alone how to control one. I've seen this too many times on local lakes and rivers. The boat is treated like another piece of equipment in the gym that they can take away with them..... They do NOT read the instruction and safety materials that come with the boat. And they are not interested in doing so. Their thoughts and perceptions lie elsewhere. They are not likely to read any paddling publications. You're right; nobody told them anything -- but another part of that same observation is How do we find them to try to tell them? > >Chuck Sutherland >http://www.enter.net/~skimmer >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Okay, unpopular question of the day -- Why is requiring lincenses for various types of recreational boats in certain areas a bad idea? Maybe you wouldn't need paperwork to sit in your tube in a pool, but you would for the motor boat or kayak in which you're tooling around the New York Harbor. For us paddle types, licenses could be pegged to BCU certification. You needn't have a city bureaucrat test you; merely have a recognized, audited authority (New York Kayak Co., Manhattan Kayak Co., the Atlantic folks, etc.) vouch for you. It's a pain, but it could sharply reduce this kind of problem. I am among many moderately experienced frequent paddlers here who'd likely need to learn more to qualify -- not a horrible fate! Remember, this would also reduce the number of spookily incompetent cigarette boaters and jetskiers we gamble our lives upon. Feel free to knock this idea to hell. I'm not attached to it, and I suspect it's nothing new. But I wanted to understand the thinking around this issue. Erik *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hudpad asked, >Why is requiring lincenses for various types of recreational boats in certain areas a bad idea? I don't believe that people would be against licensure if it would improve safety. Practical experience has shown me that programs generally become Beaurocratic snafus and highly ineffective. They cost to much money to initiate and maintain. The paddlers who continue in more than a casual manor tend to seek info via groups, clubs, publications and other paddlers. It is the newbie that needs direction to stay safe until he learns more. There have been rumblings in this group and others about instructors. Becoming an instructor does not mean that you are an Olympic paddler, it simply means that you have successfully completed the course requirements and agree to adhere to the guidelines of your certifying organization when teaching a class. The number of certified instructors falls way short of the number of Newbies. The only reason that I am harping on certified instruction is to assure minimum standards. If the instructor teaches to the proper level, the Newbie should be safe. Kayaking must be self regulating. Like diving, unless I am mistaken, you do not need a license to dive, but you do have to show some certification to have tanks filled. The casual kayaker is at risk much more so than the enthusiastic Newbie who seeks advice. Bruce WEO www.wholeearthoutfitters.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/4/99 4:42:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, Outfit3029_at_aol.com writes: > The only reason that I am harping on certified instruction is to > assure minimum standards. If the instructor teaches to the proper level, > the Newbie should be safe. Perhaps in a perfect world where *Common Sense* is common, where newbies take classes and care to learn, and where instructors -- certified or not, can actually teach good judgment. Bruce, I think it is rather dangerous thinking if you actually believe, and therefore tell the newbies that will listen, that your (or some) brand of certification can turn the instructor into the magic pill that will make them safe. Nothing can make them safe. Nothing can even start to ensure their (our) safety except their (our) own intelligent judgment, vigilance and dedication in making certain that the level of their (our) skills, knowledge, equipment and preparation are all up to a level at least equivalent to the conditions they (we) might encounter on each leg of each trip. This isn't taught in a single lesson or series of lessons, but is a continuous learning process which should (I believe) include *quality* instruction. I do believe that certification is a good thing and would even get all the certs available if I had the time and money needed. I could undoubtedly learn a great deal and might even become a better instructor at the levels I teach. I also believe that the certification process can raise the general level of instruction. But I also believe that many of the best and most knowledgeable instructors in US kayaking have never had certification instruction. I worry when anyone holds the act of certification (or teaching to some minimum standards) up as a final solution to any question of safety. Hardly got any opinions about anything :^) Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 11/3/99 7:03 PM Erik (Hudpad_at_aol.com) wrote: >Why is requiring lincenses for various types of recreational boats in >certain areas a bad idea? > [SNIP] > >Remember, this would also reduce the number of spookily incompetent >cigarette boaters and jetskiers we gamble our lives upon. > >Erik Right, just like automobile driver licensing reduces the number of spookily incompetent drivers on the highway. Licensing is a way to collect money and often to limit the number of people engaged in an activity (such as practicing a profession). It never ensures competence. Ira *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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