Re: [Paddlewise] sail rigs

Matt Broze wrote:
> 
> >Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:08:50 +0000
> >From: Mark Balogh <batwing_at_kerrlake.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] sail rigs
> >
> >Mark wrote:
> >snip 
> We make our masts
> >multisectional for stowage but decided that filling them with foam made
> >sense in case you dropped a mast section in the water.
> 
> I'm not picky about how its done just so the function is taken care of.

I understand you wanting to cord the mast sections together but in all
the years we have been building masts no one has asked for a replacement
section due to loss overboard.  I have replaced about 4 sections that
were run over by peoples cars and the foam did not help with that.  So
foam filled is cost effective and acceptable to your rig idea.
> 
> >SNIP<
> >Some problems
> >with your other wishes though might be that the parawing shape would be
> >less desirable as a sail and would be large in overall dimensions for a
> >given area which could cause control problems and require a tall mast
> >and complicated rigging to support and trim it.  The idea of using a
> >sail as an awning would require a fairly large sail which is not a
> >problem in itself but again might require a fairly tall and strong mast
> >and step.  Large sails can be troublesome on narrow unstabilized boats.
> 
> I see the problem. Maybe they could fold once to make a smaller spinnaker
> for higher winds but that could be opened out to be lighterweight (stay
> filled easier) and bigger for lighter winds. That would allow the tarp
> aspect to be bigger and it could still fold over the mast (or be fixed to
> the foot of the mast) to become a main sail. If the bottom of the folded
> edge could be hooked to a line and the tack pulled out to the bow a genoa
> might result.

I will certainly think further on it as your ideas have merit but from
what I know of good awning design, the shapes cut into the cloth to make
the awning stable are mostly opposite to the shapes used to make a sail
that converts wind energy into usable thrust.  Maybe in the folding this
could be addressed but I am not sure now how it could be done.  Some of
the features you are descibing are problematic when approached from the
generic point of view that makes them commercially feasible. 
Particularly for sails that are attached to the boat other than at the
mast I can more easily design a rig for one specific boat and its
measurments, than for boats in general.  Boats in general are what makes
a rig like this commercially possible.  One-offs as you know, are
expensive. How large an area does an awning for use with the crew of a
double have to cover? Also, if one uses a parawing style awning with two
poles, what is the minimum lenght for the two poles?
> 
> >SNIP<
> >Which brings me to the last question.  If
> >we could make you a sail that would power (which size boat?)
> 
> A double, I don't really want to sail a single and I think it would be too
> risky and/or the sail would be too small to use as a shelter too.

Agreed, but again I think commercially this may be a limitation.
> 
> >your kayak
> >on reaches and runs and it could have a shock corded or foam filled
> >multisection mast, a reefing sleave, could reach or run with good
> >manners and could be used as a sun shade,(if what ever size sail it was
> >was big enough to be useful). If we could make you this sail, how big
> >can it be folded,
> 
> I think the mast is going to be the bigger space problem here. Maybe it
> could be made to telescope like an adjustable length boat hook.Then only the
> small section could be filled with foam though.

I agree that it is a good idea but the engineering is difficult. 
Telescoping tubes are notoriously bad in the real world.  If the mast is
made to tolerances that make it strong and straight for its weight it is
sensitive to sand and dents and with the wrong alloy, corrosion
welding.  Non telescoping masts are bulkier to store but very
dependable.  As you say, using them for more than one purpose justifies
their stowage twice.
> 
> > how much can it weigh
> 
> low weight is nice but not usually a major issue in kayaking (especially if
> it can double as a shelter and sun shade and therefore subtract those items
> weights (and bulk) from your load.
> 
> >and how much is it worth to you
> >retail?
> 
> I was kind of hoping to get one free for proposing the idea and doing beta
> testing on it.
> I'm a bigger cheapscate than Audrey so that is not a good question to ask me
> when you really want to know what price would it take to have a good market
> for the product. I think a typical sea kayak/camping customer in my shop who
> needed the items might go for up to $500 without too much problem if it did
> a reasonably good job covering all its functions. If sailing a kayak was a
> lot more popular around here probably more. It took me about a year to sell
> the Primex V-sail (for singles) I had priced at $200 several years ago. We
> are a sea kayaking specialtity shop. Easy Rider could probably move a lot
> more of them than I could as they do a lot with sails and sailing kayak
> set-ups around here.
> >
> >Matt Broze
> >http://www.marinerkayaks.com

Ah, I see.  I have done custom designs for kayak and canoe companies in
the past and it is traditional that they send me prototype or production
sailing boats for long term testing as a courtesy. I will be thinking of
a list of design features to send to you;-)  Outside or that, thanks for
your testing offer but we do testing in house as a rule. I do appreciate
your thoughtful feedback and I will give it some serious consideration.
I see some possibilities for exploration. Actually I think it may have a
50/50 chance.  Anybody else care to make input on their desires for the
perfect sail rig.  Does anybody else see value in the rig/awing that
Matt has described?


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